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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Compassion as a driving force in the church

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 Re:

We need a lot of wisdom here and find a balance.
We all know the parable about the "Prodigal Son." What do we do when we come across such people? Can we just feed them and make their lives a bit more comfortable ? That would be unbiblical but that is what they expect from us and that is what many Christian groups do these days.

A few months ago i visited a man who had no food and no money. I brought him some food and told him when he gets payed (social welfare ) we need to work on his budget so that ultimately he can manage on his own. But he didn't like to hear that and told me some Christians sometimes just took him in and fed him . Now that is what he expects. I also dropped off a New Testament and told him without praying and the Lords help we would not see any progress. He didn't want to know.

Something i found on the internet:
Brazilian Catholic Archbishop Hélder Câmara famously said, 'When I feed the poor, they call me a saint; when I ask why they are poor, they call me a communist.'
Here is a very good article:
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/010/2-social-justice.htm

Keep up the good work everyone !

 2015/8/14 19:22
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Oswald Chambers talks a good bit about well meaning Christians who unwittingly interfere with God's work in people when they step in to try to make things better when things have gone bad in their lives.

It does indeed take wisdom to know when to interject oneself and when to leave it alone.


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Todd

 2015/8/14 21:57Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

I think I agree with you tim in what you are seeing, but rather then get hung up on the definition on certaint words , I just see it as as those churches are not decipling biblically they put the cart before the horse, you decipling converts not the lost ,you preach the gospel of repentance to the lost rather then decipling the goats, your compassion accompanys biblical evangelism it doesn't replace it or out shine it or take the edge of the blade confronting preaching,, the largest church in our town is one of those mentioned by you ,and they have fallen so far away from biblical chirstianity that out of a five thousand member church ,they have one out reach van who claim to feed the lost and preach the gospel ,,but the gospel is a so called seed planting gospel with no dealing cross preaching and they can't even get enough members from the church to do one Friday night per week , which is four people on the van at once ,,they stoop to the level of getting unbelievers to ride on th van and out reach with so called believers and the rare true believer,,I could not continue to minister under those conditions,,,,,,this is the state of our Hillsong church called calvery church ,they are part of hill song',,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, our Salvation Army church here are similar working with goats to do the ministers of sheep ,,so called compassion orientated , laking serious gospel preaching ,,

Here in Townsville Queensland,, according to one of there new converts who I worked with as a plaster for a wile, whose conversion is very suspect, ,whom his treated like a poster boy so to speak, told me through there rehabilitation drugs and alcohol ten step gospel prayer centered methods of evenglisim, he was one of three percent that never went back to his old life, they treated him as converted and a rare case,,yet when I spoke to him many times he never even new what being born again was ,and only really herd a very shallow gospel presentation,,,,,,,,,,,,

This seems to be common umong the so called compassion toleration churches , false converts diluted gospel skued focase, seems to be a very obvious problem

 2015/8/14 22:16Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Tim, I agree with your burden for the need of Love within the Body but disagree with contrasting or blaming the lack of love in the brotherhood on to much energies being placed on compassion and reaching the lost.

I do not believe (what I consider) the seeker friendly movement is being moved by true compassion.

RE: ///I will omit the church name from this news quote.///

That makes it dificult to judge the intent of there quote. The part that you stated that they : "allow homosexually active members" is alarming and disturbing, If that is true they are off base to allow open sin in the membership (body) 1 cor 5


On other hand welcoming sinners to fellowship with us is Jesus like : Mark 2:16 Matthew 9:11 Luke 5:30 Matthew 9:10
Luke 7:34 Matthew 11:19 Mark 2:15

RE: ///The quote leans on compassion and reaching as a way to show people to Jesus. Okay. Jesus' prayer in John 17 did not.///

Jesus reached out to sinners : Mark 2:17
Jesus entire ministry which is our example was based on "preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people." It does not get more compassionate than that.

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,"



RE: ///Our love for each other is vital. It demonstrates that we follow Jesus. But what demonstrates to the unbelieving that God sent Jesus? Our oneness in Him. But, our American energies are not devoted to the John 17 oneness in Him. We are, instead, devoted to compassion and reaching.///

I believe those ministries like Time Square, Brooklyn Tab., New Life Evangelistic center etc. That spend a great deal of focus on ministring to a lost and dying world have more love for one another than those ministries that do not.

"The Baptism of the Holy Ghost is a Baptism of Love" - David Wilkerson


As with the context of the sermon that the above Wilkerson quote came from : I believe that Love manifest both toward the brotherhood as well as a lost and dieing world.









 2015/8/14 23:01Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

Yep I think the flesh can produce a counterfeit compassion ,a humanistic driving force with hinden agenders like guilt and self righteousness, but that is not biblical compassion that comes from a regenerate heart that wants God to get glory and souls converted as a motavation,.

And we all know God sees the motavation as part of the deed itself ,if the motavation is not holy and sangtfied, then neither is the good works exceptable before a thrice hoy God

 2015/8/14 23:26Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Welcoming sinners into fellowship brings us to James 2:16 compassion. That one is kinda easy. They are actively wrestling in doubt with the truth.

Jesus' healing ministry was merciful indeed. Compassionate. Had it not been accompanied by His teaching, there is no reason to believe He would have done it. Someone saw and was challenged to believe and understand Him each time. The challenge was to believe He was God the Son, the sent One, and that His message was true. He specifically prayed for us in John 17 that we would be one in Him as He is one in the Father and that THAT particular thing would be "so that the world may believe" that God sent Jesus. I do not think we ought to leave acts of kind mercy to the lost undone. But it is not a NT instructed means of proving to the lost that Jesus is the Christ. Will people at times be moved toward Him when we act in loving kindness? Yes. But the sporadic frequency of that response is supported by the absence of any doctrinal or exemplary NT instance of mercy and "reaching" as a persuasive form of action.

No doubt churches are doing mercy ministry to the lost and rightly. But you listen to Conlon and Cymbala and they lead their congregations to love for each other and God first and always. He is with them in the outreach because they are with Him in oneness with each other and Him, or at least it seems to be so.


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Tim

 2015/8/15 10:19Profile
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Perhaps one should define mercy and compassion?

Tim, you are a lawyer - don't know if you have ever defended anyone in court - but perhaps you could describe what it looks like from that perspective? After all, there can be no mercy or compassion apart from judgement.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/8/15 19:40Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Here is my take. Hope it adds something.

Compassion is the heart of God toward man. Compassion is a genuine motivation rather than an emotion or a set of actions, although compassion will often be accompanied by emotions and lead to actions. Compassion is a product of the great love of God toward mankind.

To exhibit universal acceptance of sin or of sinful lifestyles, or inclusiveness out of a desire to appear non-judgmental is not compassionate. Often these actions are born out of a self seeking desire for acceptance or image. If these are the motivations, then they are not the heart of God.

True compassion is born out of time in prayer, seeking to have God's heart toward lost mankind imparted to our own heart. When I see a lost man held captive to sin, and my heart breaks with the desire to see that man freed from the bondage to sin and reconciled to God, then I am experiencing compassion toward that man. From this motive, my actions can by pure and led of the Holy Spirit.

A church may welcome sinners into their doors out of a true desire to see these people set free from sin. But the same church will preach the unadulterated truth, knowing that anything less can lead to these people's eternal damnation. We have had a lesbian come to our church. We loved her. We accepted her in the sense that we showed her friendship and love. However we continued to preach the word of God and she understood that we considered her lifestyle to be sinful. She eventually surrendered her life to Christ, left her lifestyle. To me, we demonstrated compassion.


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Travis

 2015/8/15 20:30Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Here is my take. Hope it adds something.

Compassion is the heart of God toward man. Compassion is a genuine motivation rather than an emotion or a set of actions, although compassion will often be accompanied by emotions and lead to actions. Compassion is a product of the great love of God toward mankind.

To exhibit universal acceptance of sin or of sinful lifestyles, or inclusiveness out of a desire to appear non-judgmental is not compassionate. Often these actions are born out of a self seeking desire for acceptance or image. If these are the motivations, then they are not the heart of God.

True compassion is born out of time in prayer, seeking to have God's heart toward lost mankind imparted to our own heart. When I see a lost man held captive to sin, and my heart breaks with the desire to see that man freed from the bondage to sin and reconciled to God, then I am experiencing compassion toward that man. From this motive, my actions can by pure and led of the Holy Spirit.

A church may welcome sinners into their doors out of a true desire to see these people set free from sin. But the same church will preach the unadulterated truth, knowing that anything less can lead to these people's eternal damnation. We have had a lesbian come to our church. We loved her. We accepted her in the sense that we showed her friendship and love. However we continued to preach the word of God and she understood that we considered her lifestyle to be sinful. She eventually surrendered her life to Christ, left her lifestyle. To me, we demonstrated compassion.


_________________
Travis

 2015/8/15 20:30Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

twayneweb, that is true biblical compassion where this lost person repented and was in a place that was loving and true.

I ran across a pastor online who spoke about the need to brand his church plant. So, he said God spoke to them to brand it with compassion. They did. They gave away their tithes and offerings for a month to needy, etc. to brand their church. That is a real but extreme example.

What you describe, brother, is living out the Word.

My whole point in the thread has not been to belittle mercy. In fact, if we are one in Christ, mercy is a hallmark of our lives. But, the mercy for the sake of mercy is no better than faith in faith. The seed-faith/prosperity movement is faith in faith. Mercy for the sake of branding and compassion so you can say you are a compassionate church is qualitatively no different.

I am desperate for the life of Jesus in me, my family and those in our immediate fellowship. The prayer of Jesus in John 17 is paramount. A supernatural oneness is missing in the churches in America. Not among them....but within them. This is not a slur on them; it is a confession and acknowledgement of my own sorrow and repentance.

It is not sorrow for lack of compassion on the lost. Brother, I long ago decided that my work in the law wasn't worth the salt on an egg if I could not be merciful to the lost in it. But, it has yielded no fruit. Not just no visible fruit. No fruit. It is an empty shell. Why?

I think I know now. No real John 17 oneness among my brethren and me. That is what tells the world that God sent Jesus. Martin Luther was made to see justification by faith from a simple phrase, "and the just shall live by faith." God, show your people in America that our oneness in you is life to the world around us, that we cannot expect the world to believe you sent Jesus, that we cannot expect them to believe the gospel by our niceness, and that our oneness in You is indispensable.


_________________
Tim

 2015/8/16 0:17Profile





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