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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is God's word more than the bible?

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proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///PP, I was going to respond to your post as I thought you made some good points. However I see you removed it and although I don't know why///

I feel the interpatation is true. But after posting it I felt very restless.

As far as this being Sreeram answer : to KJV only believers.
that is sterotyping.
Bro Keith Daniels is an excellant example of One whom is I believe and I am sure Sreeram agrees filled with the Spirit.

Dry fundamentalism runs rapid no matter ones few on inspiration.

This is a good topic heydave.

edit add: Our Lord was more intune than anyone. In the midst of Spirtual battle he relied on the Written Word for propositional revelation, He viewed the written word as more than just containing personal revelation.
We find a Checks and Balances in the temptation account.


 2015/7/30 10:10Profile









 Re:

Though, they do not disagree, but we all know that the Lord by His Spirit will give more personal direction to each individual regarding their life. On the other hand, many have no idea what a relationship with the Holy Spirit is all about.

 2015/7/30 11:07
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: "Freedom from Biblicism"

I agree with the basic premise of this thread, I disagree with the conclusion many are drawing!
It is very dangerous and a very unbiblical conclusion!
It is throwing Christianity out with the bath water.

ROBERT BRINSMEADs artical is very unbiblical and extremely dangerous !!!

Eta Linnemanns a Bultmannian turned evangelicals book "Historical Criticism of the Bible Methodology or Ideology" is a must read for any one buying into Mr ROBERT BRINSMEADs mindset

also "The End of the Historical Critical Method" by Gerhard Maier is worth reading

both are written by Germans whom have had to fight German Idealism and humanism head on.

FREEDOM FROM BIBLICISM : ROBERT BRINSMEAD
tested in light of Scripture

"

Quote:

(for even the Christ-denying Pharisees trusted in the Bible ­ John 5:39) .."



This is a common misused verse to try to make an unbiblical case that the Bible is no more than a tool to point us to Christ


It is true that Pharisees trusted the scripture, (That is to say they justified there man made traditions by the scripture !)
but it is also true they did not believe the Scriptures : read the full passage instead of nit picking verses out of context : verses 46 and 47.

If we are going to break beyound the surface of Scripture we are going to have to believe Scriptures!

"
Quote:

The purpose of all Scripture is to bear witness to Christ. (John 5:39; 20:31)."




Mr BRINSMEAD biasness and lack of faith has blinded him!
We have already proved by the context that he is misleading by his misuse of John 5:39

Mr BRINSMEAD again is blinded and misuses John 20:31
The context of John 20:31 is not referring to the entirity of what is written in Scripture it is clearly referring to the (signs) that where recorded, read verse 30 the context is very clear.
Lack of faith blinds us from the context, Mr Brinsmead is blinded.

."
Quote:

The Bible in itself is not the Word of God. The Word of God is a person. (John 1:1) ."




Mr BRINSMEAD again is blinded and made the above unbiblical statement.
The inclusion of one reality does not lead to the disclusion of another :

Mark 7:13 Jesus is speaking of the Scripture and he calls it the word of God.
When Jesus was tempted in the wilderness He did not rely on Himself, He relied on what was Written, The very specifics of What was Written was instumental in the spirtual war.
How much less Spirtual are we than our Lord!
How much more important it is for us to lay hold of the Scriptures with our inward struggles.

Mr BRINSMEAD again quotes (John 5:39). It is a despreate attempt to make an unbiblical case.

Mr BRINSMEAD than makes this statement :
"
Quote:

The Bible is therefore to be valued because of its testimony to Jesus Christ. The Bible is absolutely trustworthy and reliable for the purpose it was given. It is designed to make us ''wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus'' (2 Tim. 3:15), not wise on such subjects as science, history and geography ­ which it is our responsibility to learn through general revelation."




To be continued.












 2015/7/30 16:53Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Heydave wrote : .."

Quote:

Julius, Yes good article. Thanks for the link. I particular like this statement he made "We must stop using the Bible as though it were a potpourri of inerrant proof-texts by which we can bring people into bondage to our religious traditions.".."




Mystcism without the Bible is not Christianity!!!

ROBERT BRINSMEADs artical Is not leading us to Jesus of the Bible but to another Jesus:
http://www.bobbrinsmead.com/t_the_scandal_of_joshua_ben_adam_pt1.html

 2015/7/30 18:19Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: ROBERT BRINSMEAD FREEDOM FROM BIBLICISM

Mr BRINSMEAD than makes this statement :

Quote:

The Bible is therefore to be valued because of its testimony to Jesus Christ. The Bible is absolutely trustworthy and reliable for the purpose it was given. It is designed to make us ''wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus'' (2 Tim. 3:15), not wise on such subjects as science, history and geography ­ which it is our responsibility to learn through general revelation."





To those whom are ignorant of what is going on in the Scholarly circles and blinded by there trickery of words:

What Mr. BRINSMEAD is implying here is that natural science is true and that The Bible is inacurate on all levels except to point us to Christ.

Mr BRINSMEAD also is implying that the Bible is historicaly inaccurate even when it comes to the details of Jesus : and that the secular "historic Jesus" is the real Jesus.

BRINSMEAD is implying The Jesus of Scripture is a man made up Jesus .

The mysticism or spirtuality that BRINSMEAD is pointing to, I believe resembals new age.

This mindset is sweeping the churchs.

This "Historical Criticism" of the Bible has been birthed out of the enlightment it is the fruit of humanism that has made man the center of all things.

It is why those like Bart Ehrman (pupil of internationally renowned textual critic Bruce M. Metzger) are coming out of our siminaries as agnostics.












 2015/7/30 20:16Profile









 Re:

Wow! I did not get that from Brinsmead's article at all, PP.

And I agree with over 90% of your posts. How did you arrive at those conclusions from his article? Maybe, something slipped past me or I was just focusing on something different.

 2015/7/30 21:15
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Julius21

I got it from reading the words that he wrote. and responded in my the first post refuting his artical.

I then researched him and got absolute confirmation that I indeed had read correctly.


read this if you doubt my statements : The Scandal of Joshua Ben Adam, Part 1
By Robert D. Brinsmead VERDICT, May 1998

http://www.bobbrinsmead.com/t_the_scandal_of_joshua_ben_adam_pt1.html#Introduction:_This_MAN_and_the_Christia

 2015/7/30 21:22Profile
JFW
Member



Joined: 2011/10/21
Posts: 1543
Dothan, Alabama

 Re:

Proud papa,
Well done!
Your antennas are quite sensitive, moreso than mine at least and so for that and your look into this mans writings/position and for being bold and sharing here, I am in your debt!
I read all the links that you and brother Julius shared and I without a doubt concur with your findings and realize my own discernment is lacking.

Thank you+:)


_________________
Fletcher

 2015/7/30 23:44Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

OK, first thanks PP for looking into the writings of Mr Brinstead and highlighting the error. I thought at first your response was a bit strong, but I can see why, based on his background. I see he has been in the Children of God movement for 40 years, which is a major concern.

I had written a response to Julius after reading the 2nd Brinstead article with concerns about what was written, but my tablet crashed just as I was going to post! This was very frustrating, but maybe this was of the LORD, as I then read PP's posts and had time to look into it in more depth.

The mistaken position taken by Brinstead on these posts is the dismissal of the authority of scripture (obviously he has even more heretical views as well). For me the issue is not the authority of scripture (it is final authority for life and conduct for Christians and the church), but how scripture is viewed and used. Hence this is why I quoted this statement by Brinstead "We must stop using the Bible as though it were a potpourri of inerrant proof-texts by which we can bring people into bondage to our religious traditions." In hindsight I can see his inclusion of the word 'inerrant' in this phrase is troublesome and I would not include that, but I still think that the statement is generally true if that is taken out.

The big problem in the church today is this wrong view and use of scripture, taking proof texts out as if they on their own can be used to establish a doctrine or practise. This is prevalent among all sectors of the church from IFB to WOF movements. We have all at some point in one way or another probably done this. We need the holy Spirit to renew our minds in reading and understanding scripture. The best way I know of avoiding falling into this type of 'proof texting' is to read the bible systematically, book by book, chapter by chapter, asking the LORD to reveal His word to us. This only, as opposed to reading topically, inserting our preconceptions into the text, will help us understand what is written.

Let me give an example: My wife and I are reading through 1 John. In Chapter 4 we read in verse 15 "Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God". As a proof text this could be used to say 'if you confess Jesus is God you will be born again' (God in you and you in God). However in verse 3 it says "every spirit who confesses that Jesus has come in the flesh is of God". In verse 7 "Everyone that loves is born of God" and in verse 16 "he who abides in love abides in God". So which is it? When we understand John's letter, and this part in particular, we see that John is actually showing how to test who is a false prophet and what they and an Antichrist spirit looks like, what characterises their doctrine and life (see Ch 4 verses 1 and 2). So hence the importance of how we view the 'words' of scripture! They are not in themselves (in isolation to the message being communicated) divine, but it is the whole context of what was written that is authoritative and divinely given.

To labor the point, if I were to say that John said' if you confess Jesus as Lord, you will abide in God', would I be faithfully representing what he said? I would suggest not, I would be misrepresenting him, because I have taken it out of the context of everything he wrote in this letter and he would be rightly upset. Although he said these 'actual words', he did not actually say (mean) that. He is saying this is one of the characteristics that is evident in a true Christian. This is clear when we read and quote the whole chapter (and even better, whole letter).
Politicians and the media play this 'sound bite' game to try and trap each other or give a false impressions. It is not something believers should do!


_________________
Dave

 2015/7/31 5:21Profile









 Re:

Hey Guys,

I am following this although very loosely right now.

 2015/7/31 13:02





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