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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : To my fellow sisters in The Lord (regarding headcoverings)

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4wiseinheart
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Joined: 2012/8/11
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 Re:

If you would like some reading material by G.W. North (A speaker here on SI) on this subject. There is a great little article that I could send you titled "A sign of Authority." Please let me know.

With Love in Christ.

 2015/7/17 20:54Profile
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 Re:

brother, if you had it digitally send it to me or link to it, I would be interested to view it, we have been fellowshipping in a house church that is from GW Norths movement in Canada.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2015/7/17 22:01Profile
followthelamb
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 Re:

Brother Todd, you had asked:
"Would it be appropriate for a young girl to pull a hood up- like on a hooded sweatshirt?"

In reading your question the thought came that before the Searcher of hearts, one pure and humble hoodie wearer, in a sea of covered heads who are just going through the motions, might not be altogether unlike the widow's mite that was cast into the treasury and meant more to Him than all that the rest gave.

____________

Sister RDG,
Thank you for what you shared. You mentioned: "i have learned its best to step back and allow the Lord to work in another persons life. sometimes when an issue is forced or pushed the work He wants done is actually hindered."

Yes, there is a delicate balance. And I would never want to push anyone away since we are members not only of Him but of each other even as it is written. The Lord definitely has to work in someone's life.But at the same time, it has been my experience that He does use the testimonies, exhortations and encouragements of other saints to work in someone's life.

I pray that the Lord Jesus by His Spirit might work through even what is shared in this thread to bring the truth of God's word to light in love.

___________

Don't have time to make further replies right now, but wanted to thank each of you so much for the questions and testimonies you've taken the time to share!



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SI Moderator - Brandy Gordon

 2015/7/18 10:11Profile
followthelamb
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 Re:

Brother Wijnand, thank you so much for your question and your patience.

We have been very busy the past few days and I wanted to prayerfully be led of the Spirit in this reply. (Actually feel uncomfortable answering a brother in regard to doctrinal things but in light of Acts 18:26 and the fact that Greg is encouraging me to, will gladly share what I am able...

Firstly, yes, at first glance this verse can seem to say the exact opposite of what Paul just spent so many verses carefully explaining. Just to include surrounding verses quickly:

13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not even nature itself teach you that... if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 But if one is inclined to be contentious, we have no other practice, nor have the churches of God.

As brother Sreeram mentioned, the Greek word translated as covering here is not the same word that Paul uses for covering when speaking of the physical symbol that a woman should put on her head. For what its worth, Christians in the past centuries have taught and believed that Paul was simply saying that as evidence that a woman should have a covering, even nature itself has given her a veil of sorts....but he also writes in verse 14 that this natural veil of the hair is her glory. And the reason why the long hair itself cannot be the covering is touched on in verse 6:

"if a woman does not cover her head, let her also have her hair cut off...."

And then verse 7:
"For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man."

Even though the context was different, passages like these do bring to mind what Peter said regarding Paul's letters: "...His letters contain some things that are hard to understand..." (2 Peter 3:16)

Lord Jesus, by Thy Holy Spirit quicken the truth you have breathed through the words Paul the Apostle spoke as he was carried along by your Spirit. For it was You the Living Christ speaking through Paul and giving instructions through your holy apostles. Deliver us now O Lamb of God from the fog of confusion with which the prince of this world has blinded our minds. Do it for Thine own Name's sake that we may walk blamelessly before Thee in these last days, even as the coming of the lawless one draws nigh. Grant us Lord Jesus to walk in the faith once delivered to your holy ones without hypocrisy and without compromise. Pour forth Thine own Spirit from on high and make Thy words known to us that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Amen.









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SI Moderator - Brandy Gordon

 2015/7/20 13:57Profile
twayneb
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 Re: To my fellow sisters in The Lord (regarding headcoverings)

Brandy:

Interestingly enough, I have just been studying this topic from the perspective of submission in marriage and the order of authority that God has established in the family and the church. I will throw in my two cents worth.

It seems to me that the issue of a physical head-covering is only as significant as it is a true reflection of a heart that is in submission to God and His order of authority. If a woman wears a physical head-covering, yet has a heart of rebellion toward her husband, her head-covering is meaningless. By the same token, the woman who has a heart of true submission to her husband as she submits to God, yet does not bear the physical head-covering, in my opinion, is just as if she wore the physical covering.

I will type more later. I will say that in our fellowship, we do not practice physical head-covering, but you would be perfectly at home fellowshipping with us and we would feel totally at home fellowshipping with you.


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Travis

 2015/7/20 18:31Profile
twayneb
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 Re:

I wanted to comment on a previous post. I am not wanting to be contentious, but I wanted to make a statement about the Greek words used and discussed. It is true that the word for covered (vs. et. al.) and the word for covering (vs. 15) are slightly different Greek words, but the difference is only between the noun and verb form of the same word. The meaning is not different. In one instance the word is used as a verb (covered) and in the other case is is used as a noun (a covering). Both indicate a veil. We could say that verse 4 says that she should not pray unveiled and that verse 15 says her long hair is given her for a veil.

Paul begins this portion of scripture by stating the order of authority in the church and the family. He then uses head-coverings as the example of or symbol of that authority. At the end of his admonition he says, basically, that people in the church at Corinth should not be contentious about this issue because the same tradition of head-covering is also practiced by all of the churches.

What I find interesting is the progression that Paul uses. First the absolute statement of the authority structure God has set forth. Then the head-covering as a symbol of that authority. Then the hair length as a type or natural example of the head-covering.

I honestly believe that this admonition is not an absolute command that all Christian women should adopt a physical head-covering. I believe the point is submission to God's structure of order and authority in the body. For the Corinthians, the freedom that the women had in Christ and the equality of women before the throne of God (see verses 11 and 12) might serve as a logical reason for women to abandon veiling themselves. Paul says that in order to preserve their witness before men and before angels (recall that we are a spectacle to men and to angels) women and men should observe the symbol of authority just as they observe the actual authority that God has established.

I believe that a woman practicing physical head-covering is a beautiful thing as long as that head-covering faithfully represents a true condition in her heart. Why should the presence, or absence for that matter, of a bonnet, cap, shawl, etc. on the head at all times or only during prayer and worship be a point of contention between believers?

The majority of the body of Christ in our culture do not practice head-covering and almost none of the non-believers in our culture do so. Just the submission to her husband alone would be enough of a manifestation in our culture to cause any female believer to suffer reproach for the sake of the gospel, let alone the physical veil.

This is my take on these verses as far as I understand them. Yet, why would I in any way, shape, or form condemn a sister in Christ who believes she should wear a head-covering. In fact, I have occasionally fellowshipped with families who do, and it is a total non-issue.


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Travis

 2015/7/21 9:18Profile
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 Re:

Will be continuing to submit quotes and/ or thoughts to encourage my sisters in Christ who The Lord is leading to wear a headcovering.

First though, thank you brother David and brother Travis, for taking time to share some of your personal testimony regarding these things. It has been a blessing.

Grateful to all who have posted...great is our Lord and greatly to be praised!


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SI Moderator - Brandy Gordon

 2015/7/21 19:38Profile
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 Re: To my fellow sisters in The Lord (regarding headcoverings)

Stumbled upon this quote from Derek Prince today when looking for something else...just wanted to share:

"In giving instructions about the conduct of worship in the New Testament church, Paul writes: 'For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.'...

In almost all cultures there are certain rules of conduct which govern the way people relate to their king. We call these rules protocol.

Like an earthly king, the Lord, too, has His protocol. Some of the requirements of heaven’s protocol are stated in 1 Corinthians 11:2-16. They remind us that Christians in their worship are not just a little isolated group on their own. On the contrary, Paul says, “we have been made a spectacle to the world [the universe], both to angels and to men.” We have seen that the “angels” include both good and evil angels.

As a token of our respect for the Lord, and also in our own best interests, we need to study and to follow the requirements of heaven’s protocol."


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 2015/7/21 19:40Profile
ginnyrose
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 Re:

Quote:
______________________________________________________________

Why should the presence, or absence for that matter, of a bonnet, cap, shawl, etc. on the head at all times or only during prayer and worship be a point of contention between believers?
______________________________________________________________

Travis, for the long term it does not work. You are a male and may not be able to understand the dynamics that exist between women who cover and those who do not. In fact, I am certain males don't understand at all the tension that arises because one has the conviction and the other does not.

I have worked in a crises pregnancy center for 15 years with females who did not cover. We got along fine but we were not a brotherhood. Our goal was to help females in a crises and teach moral purity along with sharing the Gospel. Other then this there were a LOT of differences among us but we chose to get along - it was a lot like working at a job.

(if you want to know about the differences among the staff at CPC, there were Southern Baptists, Calvinists, AOG, Catholic - whose husbands were military, Mennonite, Charismatic... wide spectrum of doctrine amongst us.)

This may not answer your question, Travis, but this is my answer.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2015/7/21 22:37Profile
twayneb
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 Re:

Quote:
You are a male and may not be able to understand the dynamics that exist between women who cover and those who do not. In fact, I am certain males don't understand at all the tension that arises because one has the conviction and the other does not.



Sandra: I understand what you are saying. I did have to chuckle a bit when I read the line above. Having been married for 23 years now, and in some form of church leadership for more years than that, I have seen the conflicts that arise, and I have to say that it arises from innumerable issues of which head-covering would be only one.

I guess I am not saying that conflicts do not arise, but that they should not arise. I understand that we all, to one degree or another, walk in the flesh from time to time. Praise God we can grow into ever increasing levels of maturity although we will never "get there".

It reminds me a bit of a marriage conference that my wife and I attend each year. I have been raised in the Pentecostal movement, and I would not trade that heritage for anything. I pray in tongues and believe in the present day manifestation of all of the gifts of the Spirit, and have witnessed most all of them from time to time. The people who conduct the conference are about as fundamental, holiness baptist as one can get. They look with great suspicion on anything that resembles pentecostalism. We have had some brief conversations about the difference as a church associated with our particular movement is located about 10-15 miles up the road from this camp and the community is very small. But the fellowship around the things of God is so sweet each year when we go there. There has always been a perfect harmony and unity in the Spirit when we are there. If head-covering is a hot-button issue for some, then surely the tongues issue is more.

I guess if one is walking in the flesh, the physical presence of a head-covering might cause them to react in some way. I guess I must admit your point about being a male, because it makes not one hill of beans difference to me.

By the way, I am not against head-covering in any way shape or form. I simply do not believe that in our culture this particular practice is the protocol of the day.

Let me give you a quick example. Paul in the letter to the Corinthians commanded women to learn in the church in silence and wait until they went home to ask their husbands if they had a question. He also commanded them not to teach. Yet in Romans, Paul commends Phebe to the Roman church and tells them to see to her every need as she ministers among them. To me this indicates somewhat of a cultural mandate for the sake of the witness of the church in the culture. I believe the same to be true for head-covering. But I never want to be or to come across as contentious about the issue. I am not.


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Travis

 2015/7/23 16:37Profile





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