| Poster | Thread | murrcolr
Member
Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK
| | Mormons Are Now Demanding That The State Recognize Polygamy | | A polygamist says he should be allowed to marry two women thanks to the new US gay marriage ruling.
And Nathan Collier, 46, says he will sue his home state of Montana if they don’t let him legally wed his second bride.Last week’s landmark US Supreme Court decision to legalise same-sex marriages inspired his decision, Mr Collier said.
The bigamist, from Billings, already has one legitimate wife, but says he married another in a “spiritual” ceremony earlier this week. Now he wants a license from officials in Billings to legalize his marriages to both Christine and Vicki.
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Colin Murray
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|  2015/7/6 9:45 | Profile | dolfan
Member
Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama
| | Re: Mormons Are Now Demanding That The State Recognize Polygamy | | And Christians angry about gay marriage should NOT argue that "well, at least multiple marriage is in the bible". Some will, but should not argue this.
It is irrelevant. Biblical marriage is one man, one woman. That OT persons married multiple wives was as outside of God's law as much as divorce and adultery. Comparing gay marriage to polygamy is the wrong comparison for Christians to make. We measure everything against the Lord Jesus, who has one Bride and who properly stated the historical and only definition of marriage.
It is insulting. We have staked our whole selves on the person of Jesus Christ, on the promises of Christ and on the purposes of Christ. That we should now "allow", even rhetorically, for any degree of propriety in polygamy flies in the face of Him who has bought us wholly.
It is inconsistent. To argue any biblical support, however weak, for something like polygamy as a lesser evil is to mislead unbelievers and weak believers. We are responsible to teach truth to those who will hear, and we are liable if we mislead the weak. Lesser evil is still evil. We cannot afford to chase political or rhetorical points. Time is too short and souls too precious.
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Tim
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| | 2015/7/6 10:10 | Profile | rjennings
Member
Joined: 2006/2/26
Posts: 52
USA
| | Re: | | Who didn't see this coming after the SCOTUS decision? I don't see how the court can rule against it without being hypocritical. We can line those promoting incest and pedophilia right behind the polygamists to get their day in court. You think it absurd? How many would have seen this court decision coming just a short time ago.
I remember reading David Wilkerson's "The Vision" in the early nineties and thought there's NO WAY this will ever happen and commenting on how ridiculous he must have been viewed for publicizing it twenty years earlier. But, here we are America.
I know there are Christians and churches applauding the decision but I can't for the life of me see how pastors of those churches will ever be able to preach 1 Cor 6:9-10, Jude 7, Rev 21:8 among other verses again without also pardoning murderers, idolaters, thieves...the list goes on. Those and similar verses must be revised or eliminated.
This is actually the larger concern. It's not what some judge declares as right to be as damnable as much as what those who represent God speak from their pulpits. Once we endorse what the Bible clearly opposes what other basis for right and wrong is there left? Every one does what is right in their own eyes and interprets their own morality.
I got into a discussion/debate with a pastor friend who believes churches across the country will bond together and force a correction in the ruling. My response was we would need to care enough to do that first and that if I were a betting man, I'm not, but if I were I'd say in a few weeks we will be back to business as usual and the issue will be kept out of the forefront to avoid controversy like other issues we were initially aghast at to rarely mention any longer. Let's focus on what we are for opposed to what we are against, I heard last Sunday. Let's sing another hymn how bout it?
I want to see the church rise up, I truly do. I'm just not convinced right now. I'm curious to what you others think.
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Rick
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| | 2015/7/7 13:07 | Profile | dolfan
Member
Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama
| | Re: | | Bro Rick,
From a law perspective, may I respond to your post? And from a biblical perspective too?
Quote:
Who didn't see this coming after the SCOTUS decision? I don't see how the court can rule against it without being hypocritical.
Courts have no problem being hypocritical. They excel in it. In fact, I think they own the design patent. :) Seriously, they are hypocritical and split the finest and least significant of hairs to justify themselves and claim consistency. I can think of a number of ways that polygamy can be rejected by the courts that did not pass their muster with homosexuality. Courts do what they want to get the results they want. Period. Please do not ever think of a court as a body where justice is done. Judges are men and women not one wisp beyond the influences that plague legislators and executives and constituents. Dismiss any notion that hypocrisy is a vice to a judge. If anything, hypocrisy can be an invitation to engage in great legal reasoning that has zero moral power but all the throttle of the law.
Quote:
We can line those promoting incest and pedophilia right behind the polygamists to get their day in court. You think it absurd? How many would have seen this court decision coming just a short time ago.
Yes, it is not absurd. As for who saw Obergfell coming? I put together an outline 11 years ago for a Christian based book I was contemplating on the inevitability of what happened last week. My conclusion was then as others say now, that states should have gotten out of the marriage business altogether, and that a civil union for all unions not called marriage was the way forward to preserve the spiritual authority of the church. I missed something, though: that the homosexuals and secularists and Satan himself INSISTED on holding onto the marriage label for the precise purpose of marring the image of God. But, brother, anybody with their eyes open saw this coming in slow motion more than a decade ago. I'm not that smart and I'm not that lucky to have just gotten it right.
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I know there are Christians and churches applauding the decision but I can't for the life of me see how pastors of those churches will ever be able to preach 1 Cor 6:9-10, Jude 7, Rev 21:8 among other verses again without also pardoning murderers, idolaters, thieves...the list goes on. Those and similar verses must be revised or eliminated.
This is actually the larger concern. It's not what some judge declares as right to be as damnable as much as what those who represent God speak from their pulpits. Once we endorse what the Bible clearly opposes what other basis for right and wrong is there left? Every one does what is right in their own eyes and interprets their own morality.
You've hit on something so powerfully true. The culture accepts what the government approves. Never forget it. People insist that government does not legislate morality. Far more than that, government arbitrates morality. Government, business and culture are inseparable. All of them are aligned in this matter, which goes far beyond homosexuality. It is a diabolical conspiracy of the prince of the power of the air and the spiritual wickedness in heavenly places which have as their servants the government, authorities, rulers and powers in this world.
Entertainment, sport, politic, commerce, all of it comes together to serve their master, the evil one, our adversary.
Preachers and leaders of others in the body of Christ have a duty to mark this out for all to see. Not by railing at the darkness, which we've excelled in doing. But, instead, by pulling our own plugs from the world order of things, gathering together frequently and small-ish-ly (a made up word, yes) and living out Hebrews 10:25 as if we have no time left to lose. Because we don't.
We need to quit our criticisms of the world, and pull together in unity. Lay down arms against our brothers and sisters whose theologies and doctrines may be weak or places where we ourselves might stumble. Lay down our rights to be right and ask the Son of righteousness to wipe away our thoughts of our own selves for the sake of His people, including those He has not yet converted. I am deeply concerned and deeply desire that Jesus' prayer in John 17 that we be one in Him as the Son is in the Father be made real in us now. In real time -- now.
Quote:
I got into a discussion/debate with a pastor friend who believes churches across the country will bond together and force a correction in the ruling. My response was we would need to care enough to do that first and that if I were a betting man, I'm not, but if I were I'd say in a few weeks we will be back to business as usual and the issue will be kept out of the forefront to avoid controversy like other issues we were initially aghast at to rarely mention any longer. Let's focus on what we are for opposed to what we are against, I heard last Sunday. Let's sing another hymn how bout it?
I want to see the church rise up, I truly do. I'm just not convinced right now. I'm curious to what you others think.
I don't want to see the "church rise up" if by that you mean as a cultural and moral force to be reckoned with on policy issues. The best and most moral government policies you and I could imagine will be roasted in that great last carbon footprint of 2 Peter 3:9-11. We have no part in it.
If by "church rise up" you mean that we get on our faces, get together frequently (more than Sundays) and live the reality of the New Testament and in conformity with the prayer of Jesus in John 17? Arise, shine for your light has come and the glory of the Lord rises upon you. (Isaiah 60:1). As for churches banding together and forcing some kind of policy or law change? He's wasting his time and he's neglecting the call that we all share now. Many American evangelicals and fundamentalists are not going to be converted to true faith easily, though, as they cling to the vestiges of things they thought were virtues. My prayer and heart for them is that they loosen their grip on the things of this world order and that they look to Jesus.
Let's be the church that we could never be before. The times now require it. The Holy Spirit now makes it plain in our own spirits. We should be mature enough by now to do this without undue fear.
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Tim
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| | 2015/7/7 17:18 | Profile |
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