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 Re:

For a man that makes 1/4 of a million plus, I think it's appropriate to pull the plank out of his eye.

Franklin Graham is a bit detached from the community 'he so loves'.

Like I stated before, I don't agree with everything Sojo (and numerous other religious leaders) said to Graham but the Spirit of their manner, I do agree with.

Graham, even with good intentions, words are sick. Yes sick. They don't restore. Why? Because civil disobedience is deeply engrained into the gospel. For him to say 'it's simple, just obey.' Shows that he lacks understanding.

The race debate is not a 'simple' debate, especially with the rampant corruption still within our police force. Graham advice might work nicely for a white man but no matter what black people do, they don't have justice, still. Hence why there is an outcry and response.

For those that think 'Graham is speaking truth', I have to say 'truth to whom?' because again, Graham's word is limited in it's application (See above paragraph).

Honestly, many of Franklin's messages disturb me. Ever since he started going before the public he wreaked of right wing radio instead of his' father's pure gospel message.

Franklin says 'obey' whereas his father Billy, rightly so, would say 'only Jesus'.

 2015/3/20 9:58
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1650
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

It is not from a disregard of "standing up for righteousness in many ways" that I speak about Graham's comments. If that is what he were doing here, I would join him.

That is not what he is doing. His remarks are ill informed both biblically and factually.

The church needs to wake up and shake off this notion that we have any friendship with the state. Everything it is opposes Christ. And while we benefit from the orderliness of structure and the peaceableness orderliness affords us to spread the gospel, it remains true that the same beast feeds on the weak for the sake of the strong, and we cannot afford to lose sight that this beast is only sharpening its skills to kill, steal and destroy so that in the wrath to come, it will be hardened to cement its own judgment and steeled with lethal efficiency and force against believers. It is already unprecedented in scale, ferocity, hate and indiscrimination. The beast is preparing to turn on us.

The American police officer is, at root, the antiChrist equal to the Taliban or Boko Haram, carrying out orders of his master to destroy. America is no different than every other kingdom of this world as being opposed to Christ, and never has been. We are deceived if we think this country is somehow "based on" God's Word. There is no human invention that is any bit sacred because it "bases itself" on the Bible. Civil, corporate and all government of men is invented. The carnal mind cannot comprehend or receive the things of God; government that claims any love of Him is a lie of carnal men gaining advantage by stealth and deceit.

So, Graham is deceived. He thinks police powers are benign except to evil doers. He is of the stripe that says if you are not doing evil, you have nothing to fear. He does not know what he is talking about, and in his current state of ignorance he is better off filling shoe boxes.

Truth and righteousness in this day must be addressed not in terms of yielding to the well armed, but loving the tormentors AND correctly identifying the agents of hell as objects of the gospel plea. It is NOT unrighteous to not stop, drop and roll on the command of a police officer. It is NOT a lack of truth in the inward parts to not do so. The day is already here when the deceiver will give us messengers in Jesus' name who insist that we must serve Caesar. Graham has taken the bait on that, and he has hooked himself terribly. Even if he also speaks about injustices and government rejection of God, it is just sound and fury.




_________________
Tim

 2015/3/20 10:28Profile
back-to-acts
Member



Joined: 2011/5/12
Posts: 28
Texas

 Re:

The problem with Graham's statement is that he completely avoids the issue of satanic power and generational curse that is on some people of color. I agree with TMK that it is pretty stupid to say that we are "enslaving" black people in prison if they have committed legitimate crimes to put themselves there. Are they being targeted? Possibly! But did they still commit a crime? Most likely. So how do you balance the two?
There is a total disregard for authority in America today, both for parents and people of authority in our lives. Kids have zero respect for their parents, so therefore have zero respect for their teachers and then zero respect for anyone including those who serve on the police force. Graham is obviously Republican and I can hear all of them cheering as they read this statement. But he completely misses the point that there is a deep seated generational attack from the devil on many communities of African Americans that needs to be addressed. If that is not dealt with just telling them to OBEY is useless. Some have never been taught of required to obey because their parents haven't and on and on.

I grew up as some people would call "white trash" . And the same issue is happening there, maybe on an even equal level. You go to some white trash neighborhoods and you see profiling all the time! The same generational satanic power is prevalent there.

I agree with Dolfan that the government is not a God ordained institution. God has one institution and that's the Church. Some people go over board with that but most completely avoid the fact that the government is not and has never been under the inspiration of God's Spirit.

The people who experienced loss in their families it is a tragedy. Whether they committed a crime or not, it is still a tragedy.
It does irk me a little though when I see people making millions of dollars off of being "race advocates". They want to do away with race issues, but yet they make millions off of there being race issues.... Disturbing. Really what would they do for a living if there wasn't race issues? Some ( not all) are in love with the "fighting for something" mentality. Fight for Jesus to be glorified in America, that is the only hope.


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Travis Cunningham

 2015/3/20 10:50Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3593
Louisiana

 Re:

"The American police officer is, at root, the antiChrist equal to the Taliban or Boko Haram, carrying out orders of his master to destroy."

Tim,

I cannot believe that you would make a statement like this. I am sure that Eric Holder and Al Sharpton would agree with you. They are just as much to blame for the racial problems in this country as any one with prejudice in their hearts.

You are calling the American police officer, at root, the antiChrist, when God calls him "His Minister".

" Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing." (Romans 13:1-6).

There are bad policemen that abuse their authority, but it is unjust to put every policeman in this category.

I have a prison ministry, and believe me, those that I minister to know that they belong there, and many are thankful that they are in prison, because God has had mercy on them and saved them from a life of destruction in which they could have very easily been killed on the streets and ended up in hell.

We should be praying for our policemen, not calling them "antiChrist".

If you want to rebel against the police for doing their job, then you are in rebellion to God.


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Mike

 2015/3/20 12:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
AbideInHim said: If you want to rebel against the police for doing their job, then you are in rebellion to God.



What? Are you serious?

Are you saying ISIS, who is the law in the middle east, is to be obeyed? What makes their situation different than the blacks of today? (Please be exhaustive as possible)

I pray for both sides. We both need Jesus. The victims of injustices (non-whites in this American case) (or Christians in persecuted countries) but we also pray of the 'law enforcers' and 'govt leaders that write, refine, and sign laws'. Why both sides? Because ONLY GOD's law, within our hearts is perfect. And even then, we all fall short.

Let's remember God never really wanted a govt, He wanted a people, an ongoing relationship, but the people demanded only Moses to speak to them, then the people demanded a king.

Let's seek after the ONLY one who can fix the complicated problems of today. President Jesus. King Jesus. Senator Jesus. Police officer Jesus. Black Jesus. White Jesus.

 2015/3/20 12:27
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638
NC, USA

 Re:

I think we have to talk practically. Yeah it would be nice to live in a utopian theocracy but unfortunately that ship has long sailed and had not (yet) come back in.

What is the alternative to police officers?

I am open to suggestions. Maybe Gomer Pyle shouting "citizens arrest" would be more effective.


_________________
Todd

 2015/3/20 13:44Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3593
Louisiana

 Re:

o"Are you saying ISIS, who is the law in the middle east, is to be obeyed? What makes their situation different than the blacks of today?"

Let's get real brother! You know good and well that we are not talking about Isis. The brother was talking about American policemen being AntiChrist.

We never have to obey any authority that would have us do something that would violate the will of God, and I will say this: If a policeman would stop me from witnessing when I haven't broke any law, and I knew it was God's will for me to do so, then I would probably end up in jail. For we are always obey God when the laws of the land go against the laws of God.

When you don't obey good laws that were put in place to maintain peace in a community, then you are lawless, you are out of the will of God, and your problem is not only with the police, it is with God, who has put these authorities in place to prevent lawlessness.


_________________
Mike

 2015/3/20 14:42Profile
back-to-acts
Member



Joined: 2011/5/12
Posts: 28
Texas

 Re:

Quote "Are you saying ISIS, who is the law in the middle east, is to be obeyed? What makes their situation different than the blacks of today?"

I think this is a little to far... But our outward expressions show forth an inward reality of the heart. And for most who have no respect for authority its and internal issue of the heart. I think we need to be careful trying to deny that reality.

How about the police officers that are lost and going to hell as well? Are we supposed to treat them with disrespect and just hope they get saved because some of them may have done something wrong? Everyone wants to complain about all of these race issues but no one really has any suggestions on how to fix them! People get rich off of it, others fill some sort of fulfilment in fighting for something they believe in, but non of it is changing anything. Just making cops quit and no one wanting to be a cop anymore I guess. I don't really blame them either. That sounds like a great place to live, where there is a shortage of policemen...


_________________
Travis Cunningham

 2015/3/20 16:36Profile









 Re:

If you guys took note of what Dolfan said, you'd see that he was exposing the AntiChrist within BOTH the America police and the taliban.

Quote:
TMK said: I think we have to talk practically. Yeah it would be nice to live in a utopian theocracy but unfortunately that ship has long sailed and had not (yet) come back in.

What is the alternative to police officers?



First, the ship has never sailed for God to reign on the earth. We pray for revival...especially on this website. We are praying for God's reign on the earth. I pray that your prayers are accompanying belief when you pray for revival. The ship has never sailed. If it has, then...let's stop praying for revival. But I think we can all agree that God's able and mighty to save, in cultural and vast ways.

Second, alternative to police officers? This isn't an 'either or' debate. Both sides (victim and officers/govt) are wicked, they both need Jesus. I don't see Jesus choking out a black man for a petty law broken. Nor do I see Jesus rioting in Fergison. Both sides are fighting with imperfect tools and neither will reach their desired results.

Demanding 'simply obey' as Franklin Graham has stated, isn't Christ. It's not the Gospel message. The Gospel message is JESUS. Obedience doesn't equal Jesus, let's remember Reformation.

Quote:
Abide said: When you don't obey good laws that were put in place to maintain peace in a community, then you are lawless, you are out of the will of God, and your problem is not only with the police, it is with God, who has put these authorities in place to prevent lawlessness.



Hmm. Okay. With your logic, it sounds like you are focusing on the Law instead of Grace. No one is righteous, not even one. God didn't put these laws in place. How is the Devil called 'god of this world' but the devil doesn't get the attribution for his evil laws on the books?

Two wrongs don't make a right. Both sides are wrong. Let's not just focus on the wickedness of the victim. My desire is to show you and hopefully illuminate you about the wickedness in the system. Your government representatives nor your police officers are blameless. We aren't called to 'simply obey'. Why? Because their wickedness doesn't dictate our lives, ONLY JESUS dictates our lives.

Following the laws of the land, any land, doesn't mean you are following God. In many cases, civil disobedience is encouraged by the Gospel. Heck, America was founded in civil disobedience (which turned violent fast).

Quote:
back-to-acts said:Everyone wants to complain about all of these race issues but no one really has any suggestions on how to fix them!


The solution, as Graham stated, is 'obedience' but I implore you he is wrong. The solution is Jesus. What does that look like for the officer? Not killing people with petty crimes. Not stealing the property of others without a trial. What does that look like for the victim? Sadly, it's a much more difficult cross to bear. Physically enduring the unjust persecution, going to jail like the Apostles. But also rallying together to protest the corruption. Lobbying our government to see the laws check/balance our law enforcers.

 2015/3/20 17:17
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2772
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Response to Franklin Graham

Quote:
Franklin said: Listen up--Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and everybody else. Most police shootings can be avoided. It comes down to respect for authority and obedience. If a police officer tells you to stop, you stop. If a police officer tells you to put your hands in the air, you put your hands in the air. If a police officer tells you to lay down face first with your hands behind your back, you lay down face first with your hands behind your back. It’s as simple as that. Even if you think the police officer is wrong—YOU OBEY. Parents, teach your children to respect and obey those in authority. Mr. President, this is a message our nation needs to hear, and they need to hear it from you. Some of the unnecessary shootings we have seen recently might have been avoided. The Bible says to submit to your leaders and those in authority “because they keep watch over you as those who must give an account.”



I find Graham's comments to be very practical and they hit at an issue that is huge in our nation, the issue of respect for authority. We see an absolute casting off of authority on every level, for parents, for teachers, for police, for government, and ultimately, for God. Satan has done a terrible work among us.

Franklin Graham knows as well as any Christian that the ultimate solution to our problems is to deal with them on a spiritual level. To imply that he is demanding legalistic obedience misses the point. He is simply pointing to one of the many results of our spiritual decline, lack of respect for authority. The Bible deals with many specific sins to get us to consider our condition and return to God where the true healing is found.

In Christ,


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2015/3/20 18:50Profile





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