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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The stumblingblock of ELECTION

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Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2400

 Re: Election and why

TMK wrote,

quote: 'Yet God doesn't choose upon the basis of how one is acting or what they have done in the past. He chooses according to His sovereign choice made from eternity."

It is not offensive that God does not choose on the basis of merit. What's offensive is the second sentence, the idea that "He chooses according to His sovereign choice made from eternity." But lets not get into that debate.

docs: "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should bne holy and blameless before Him." (Ephe 1:4)

"For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times, for the sake of you." (I Peter 1:20)

"who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God..." (I Peter 1;2)

The reality of election exists and this election comes from decisions made in eternity. I realize there are nuances to this view that have been presented and there are different ways some people look at it but still, election from eternity exists based entirely on God's choice.

TMK wrote,

Docs- why is the "Israel issue" so important to you? I know you post on it frequently. I am just curious as to why some people take special interest in this. What do you hope to accomplish? I do believe that Jewish people have a special place in God's heart- if they accept Christ as Messiah like all other persons must.

docs: I'm not dispensational nor do I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Meanwhile, why shouldn't one take an interest in the subject if they believe many of the things the prophets spoke of regarding Israel and the last days are becoming more and more evident. Anti-semitism is on the rise and there is a growing civil war of sorts beginning to intensify in the church regarding the relevance of modern Israel. Those who believe in a future for Israel don't believe the Jewish eschatological remnant will gain entrance to God's kingdom just because they are Jewish. It's the children of promise who are the true sons of Abraham. Israel as a nation will have to embrace the cross just like anyone else. The issue is not whether they have a special place in God's heart and will be saved if they accept Christ as the Messiah. Most Christians believe that. The issue set to divide the church and sift many hearts is whether or not Israel has a future as an all redeemed nation. I have chose to believe that they do. Since the scenario portrayed involving Israel at the end of the age is increasingly being played out on the world stage why shouldn't one be interested? Growing anti-semitism in the world is a sign in itself these prophesied things are coming to pass. That's not saying those who believe Israel has no future are anti-semitic. I don't believe that. Yet the church has barely stoked the fires of true repentance before the Jewish people for being among their chief persecutors many times in history. Yet we still tell then your nation has no future.

You ask,

"What do you hope to accomplish?" I could ask also what do you hope to accomplish by responding? If it's somewhat of a non issue to you you've been among the first to respond somewhat negatively more than once. What is your purpose?

"But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the Book until the time of the end. [Then] many shall run to and fro and search anxiously [through the Book], and knowledge [of God’s purposes as revealed by His prophets] shall be increased and become great." (Daniel 12:4 - Amplified Bible)

Searching thorugh the prophetic books as never before is a good thing to do at this point in my opinion. That is part of why I post on this subject. I hope to help create a good ole godly interest in the eschatological scriptures because I think more or less that the deal is on.

David Winter

 2015/2/2 22:46Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5823


quote: "The issue set to divide the church and sift many hearts is whether or not Israel has a future as an all redeemed nation."

What do you mean by a "redeemed nation?" I guess your answer to this question will decide whether I agree with you or not. If by this you mean "an entire nation of people who are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and fully devoted followers of Him," then I agree. If you mean "an entire nation redeemed by God because they are Jewish" then I can't agree.

The other issue is "who is Jewish today?" There has been a lot of watering down over the centuries.


 2015/2/3 6:20Profile

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