Poster | Thread | Solomon101 Member
Joined: 2008/4/1 Posts: 536 America's Flyover Country
| THE RELIGIOUS PHARISEE SPIRIT | | THE RELIGIOUS PHARISEE SPIRIT
And when they had crossed over, they came to land at Gennesaret. And when the men of that place recognized him, they sent around to all that region and brought to him all who were sick and implored him that they might only touch the fringe of his garment. And as many as touched it were made well. Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? MATTHEW 14:34 - 15:2 ESV
DO YOU SEE IT?! Jesus the Son of God heals the sick. The long awaited Messiah brings deliverance to the captives and release to the oppressed. Glory and honor to God! The time of fulfillment is at hand. Israel's prayers are finally being answered. The long night of suffering is finally coming to an end. Jesus the Savior is here! The Lord is visiting His people.
The scene is almost indescribable. A man who was lame leaps for joy, dancing and skipping with laughter. A father holds his children in his arms and sobs uncontrollably: His blind eyes have been opened! For the first time in years, he can see the faces of his precious little ones. Another man shouts, "I'm clean! I'm clean!" His leprosy has vanished in an instant. A young mother falls to her knees in worship. Her daughter is whole again. The promised deliverer has come.
But that's not what these Pharisees saw. Jesus was breaking their religious traditions! "Your disciples don't wash their hands before they eat!" Who cares about miracles? Who cares about the mighty moving of the Spirit? Who cares about the tangible demonstration of the power of God? Who cares about all the desperate people being touched? He's violating our customs; He can't be from God. Our traditions go back for generations! Who does He think He is?
That, my friends, is a hypocritical religious spirit.
adapted from Dr. Michael L Brown's writings on the subject
How will you do in the same circumstance? When God shows up in mighty Holy Spirit delivering power but does so through people and in ways you were not expecting how will you respond?
Father in Heaven, may we have so much of your heart and love for people that we always rejoice to see them delivered and brought into your presence. May that be true whether we particularly like the way it happens or not. May it be true whether we "like" the person deliverance comes through or not. Let it not matter if it comes through a child, senior citizen, parent or teen. May it be true whether it is in a place that is not "churchy" looking, a home, the coffee shop, or the gutter beside the street. May it be true whether the person has a new suit, Big Smith overalls, business casual khakis, or torn jeans and a shredded t- shirt. May it be true whether they are clear skinned or covered in tattoos and piercings. May it be true whether they are black, white, brown, red, or yellow. May it be true whether they are male, female, from a large metro area or from the most rural community. May it be true whether they have a $100 hair cut, spiked green and purple hair, no hair at all, gauge holes in their ears or no holes at all. Dear Father may we recognize days of visitation and Holy Spirit anointing that are genuinely from you no matter who you choose to use!
Destroy the Pharisee spirit so that people may be free to serve and receive from You! |
| 2015/1/21 7:28 | Profile | Oracio Member
Joined: 2007/6/26 Posts: 2094 Whittier CA USA
| Re: THE RELIGIOUS PHARISEE SPIRIT | | I agree that there is a need to be careful not to quench the Spirit. But in a generation like this in which there have been so many lying signs and wonders from false preachers there is also a need to use God-ordained and God-honoring discernment whenever claims of miracles and deliverance are made. In other words, if we are going to make a push for the expectancy and acceptance of signs and wonders, we should also make a push for the use of discernment so that we may not be swept away with the false. Is there no such need today? If so, why don’t we hear more about this much needed caution from those who push for miracles?
Here’s just one of many examples of a false preacher with false miracles that can be sited: http://www.christianpost.com/news/yes-we-eat-grass-and-were-proud-of-it-say-congregants-who-were-convinced-by-miracle-working-preacher-112400/
http://www.christianpost.com/news/after-south-african-pastor-makes-church-members-eat-grass-he-now-forces-them-to-drink-petrol-127099/
I saw the YouTube of the people eating grass and it was very revealing and sad to see. I did not post the link to it here because on the side of it there was another video promoted of another pastor asking members to do something more bizarre, a video which I did not care to see and which may cause others to stumble due to certain images.
I know that that’s an extreme example from South Africa but the same types of arguments are used here in the US by many who push for signs and wonders and "unconventional" manifestations and supposed "touches" from God. Preachers such as Benny Hinn and others come to mind. For example, some of the arguments quoted in those articles I'm sharing here are, "..with God's power, we can do anything”, "Without faith, it is impossible to please God..”, “In the book of Luke 1:37 it says nothing is impossible for God."
So again, please, if we are going to make a push for the anticipation and acceptance of signs and wonders today, let's also make sure to give the needed caution and call to discernment. That is not Pharisaic or "Religious". God does not want His people being swept away by lying signs and wonders.
“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle. 16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.”-2 Thess. 2:9-17 _________________ Oracio
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| 2015/1/21 13:15 | Profile | Solomon101 Member
Joined: 2008/4/1 Posts: 536 America's Flyover Country
| Re: | | Hey Oracio,
Would you personally have then accepted or rejected the ministry of Jesus?
Exactly how would you have come to that conclusion in His case if you were there?
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| 2015/1/21 20:02 | Profile | Oracio Member
Joined: 2007/6/26 Posts: 2094 Whittier CA USA
| Re: | | Hey Solomon101, good question. I believe if we are humble and lovers of the truth and sincerely seek after the Lord in spirit and in truth, He will reveal Himself to us and show us the difference between the true and the false. I believe the Lord would have revealed Himself to me back then just like He has revealed Himself to me now.
But if we are too proud to receive correction concerning lying signs and wonders we can easily be deceived and swept away. Been there done that and it's a hard lesson.
I agreed with your point about not quenching the Spirit. Do you agree with my point about being cautious? _________________ Oracio
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| 2015/1/21 20:32 | Profile | Solomon101 Member
Joined: 2008/4/1 Posts: 536 America's Flyover Country
| Re: | | Hi Oracio,
For me the evaluating of something in this area is really simple. There are only two questions that need be asked.
1. Is there anything here that is clearly condemned or forbidden in scripture? 2. What actual fruit is it producing in the lives of those affected by it?
That seems simple enough. If it doesn't violate God's Word and bears good and Godly fruit then it is fine. If it violates God's Word or bears bad and ungodly fruit then it is to be rejected.
I have found that a large percentage of those professing to have "discernment" often have very little of it. They operate quiet heavily in suspicion, prejudice, preconception, judgmentalism, and an overall spiritual arrogance. However, actual discernment is something they have rarely shown as they can not see past their own religious prejudices.
In addition I am quiet certain that a large number of folks who profess to be followers of Christ today would have actually rejected Him because He did not do things "decently and in order" by their definition of the term.
It is no different today. |
| 2015/1/22 10:48 | Profile | Oracio Member
Joined: 2007/6/26 Posts: 2094 Whittier CA USA
| Re: | | Quote:
1. Is there anything here that is clearly condemned or forbidden in scripture? 2. What actual fruit is it producing in the lives of those affected by it?
In general I'd agree, but there's more to it, because many false preachers would claim to abide by those two principles. Many false preachers who promote harmful manifestations claim that there is nothing in Scripture which forbids them from practicing such things. And many of the people swept away by these things claim that they've been touched by God in some way. Multitudes of sincere believers have been deceived by false preachers and false manifestations. And they need to be warned in love about such deception.
Yet you seem to have no qualms about the fact that there is so much deception that tries to pass for the real thing. You seem to have no concern for those that are swept away by such things, as you give no warnings concerning the false. The tone and tenor of your posts seem to be only about encouragement and exhortation to be open to miraculous manifestations. You condemn the warnings and label those who give them as Pharisees and religious. That's what the false preachers do when they are exposed, they cry out "Pharisee and religious!" _________________ Oracio
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| 2015/1/22 12:03 | Profile | Solomon101 Member
Joined: 2008/4/1 Posts: 536 America's Flyover Country
| Re: | | Oraclo,
Pray tell me how a person is deceived by keeping their life experiences within the parameters God Himself outlined in His Word and verifying the continuance of good, Biblical, and Godly fruit borne out in their life!
You believe people are deceived by following scripture and bearing good and Godly fruit?!?!?!?!
I certainly do warn people about the false. However, I judge it by the standard of scripture and the fruit it bears.
That is why I asked if you would have rejected Christ in His day. You used 1 line to say that, yes, we shouldn't quench the Spirit BUT... and then posted 44 lines of straw man arguments that had nothing to do with the facts and points of the op. You even threw in a few scriptures that had nothing to do with it. Ironically you never mentioned anything about using the standard of scripture or the fruit borne out in a persons life as the way to find accurate judgement. That's interesting. You stated you would know true from false by
Quote:
I believe if we are humble and lovers of the truth and sincerely seek after the Lord in spirit and in truth, He will reveal Himself to us and show us the difference between the true and the false.
Seems a pretty prejudicial standard. I think if someone you were biased against had used your direct quote you would have labeled them a dangerous and deceptive mystic or heretic ... wouldn't you?!?!
It may come as a surprise but anyone can be mistaken when they go the route you are espousing. You just simply say "God told me that was deception" even though in fact you might be clearly opposed to His actual Word and will. It is all your opinion and feelings based on what you feel like you heard. I am using the Word as the standard. Jesus Himself then said to use fruit as a standard.
I use His Word and the fruit test Jesus Himself said to use. You said that you might pray, etc. and whatever you felt was revealed to you would be the truth.
Who is really in danger of being deceived? I think I will stay right where I am on that one!
One of the greatest deceptions is being held in fear and bondage over the fear of being deceived!
Do you not know that the power of Christ to keep you exceeds the power of the enemy to deceive you?!?!?!?!
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| 2015/1/22 12:57 | Profile | Oracio Member
Joined: 2007/6/26 Posts: 2094 Whittier CA USA
| Re: | | Quote:
Do you not know that the power of Christ to keep you exceeds the power of the enemy to deceive you?!?!?!?!
Again, you do not acknowledge the fact that both the saved and unsaved have been deceived by the masses by the cunningness of false preachers with their false manifestations. I speak as one who was deceived as a true believer for a few years before I heeded the warnings.
When I was under the deception I heard all the same arguments from the false teachings I was under. I was in fear of questioning the supposed man or woman of God who supposedly prophesied in His name. I was taught to have that kind of fear. The Word was being twisted and I did not see it and it was my fault for not heeding certain warning signs.
That's why I hate that kind of deception so much because I know first hand what it's like to be caught up in it and greatly harmed by it even as a true believer.
Quote:
Ironically you never mentioned anything about using the standard of scripture or the fruit borne out in a persons life as the way to find accurate judgement.
The reason for that is because I know full well how cunning the false preachers are at twisting God's Word and how gullible people can be if they are not that familiar with the whole counsel of God's Word.
Satan is indeed clever enough to deceive even God's people in this way.
"For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!"-2 Cor. 11:4
"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."-2 Cor. 11:13-15 _________________ Oracio
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| 2015/1/22 13:36 | Profile | Oracio Member
Joined: 2007/6/26 Posts: 2094 Whittier CA USA
| Re: | | Additionally I want to add that when I mentioned seeking the Lord in spirit and in truth I did have in mind the Word of God. I did not specifically word it that way because my emphasis was on the need for a teachable spirit concerning the reality of wide-spread deception.
Again if we are too proud we will not heed necessary correction concerning false preachers and false manifestations even when we are warned from God's Word.
"For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed. 9 For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the Lord."-Jer.29:8-9
"Then you will call upon Me and go and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13 And you will seek Me and find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart."-Jer.29:12-13 _________________ Oracio
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| 2015/1/22 17:28 | Profile | ZekeO Member
Joined: 2004/7/4 Posts: 1014 Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
| Re: | | 1 John 4 makes it quite clear how to discern error. Anything that comes down the christian turnpike and any way diminishes the centrality of the Person and the work of the Lord Jesus Christ is anti christ. _________________ Zeke Oosthuis
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| 2015/1/23 10:18 | Profile |
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