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 Thoughts on a TRUE RETURN

Question: Is the 1948 return of the land to the Jewish people the same return that is spoken of in Isaiah 11:11 and Ezekiel 37:21-22?

Doc: That's a very good question in my opinion and is one that I don't hear discussed and considered very much or atleast as much as it should be. After listening to others and doing my own study (not that I'm a world class scholar but I try and study). it is my opinion that that the 1948 return to the land of the Jewish people is not the one spoken of in Isaiah 11:11 and Ezekiel 37:21. The return in Isaiah 11 is accompanied by changes in nature etc. (verses 6-9). and 11:4 is a intriguing verse.

"But with righteousness He will judge the poor, and decide with fairness for the afflicted of the earth; and He will strike the earth with the rod of His mouth, and with the breath of his lips He will slay the wicked." (Isa 11:4)

In this context then II Thess 2:8 intrigues me.

"And then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming."

The AC/man of sin will be slain with the breath of Christ's mouth when Christ returns and this hasn't happened yet.

Also, Rev 19:15,

"And from His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may smite the nations..."

The man of sin and gathered armies and wicked nations will be smitten with the breath/sword of Christ's mouth when He comes. This is the context in which I see the return of Isaiah 11;11. Changes in nature - the slaying of the man of sin and the smiting of wicked nations - then the return of verse 11:11. This is when a surviving remnant returns from even the far distant places of the earth where they have been driven by the AC and his fury. Plus it's my opinion many living in the nations will choose to return to the land in that day. These returnees will make up those described In Ezekiel 37:21-22.

The nations had a soft place in their heart for the Jewish people after the events of WWII and went out of their way so to speak to provide a homeland for the Jewish people. It had long been advocated by many teaching Israel is replaced theology that there never would be a physical return of the Jewish people to the land. So a new and obviously enlightening piece of the prophetic puzzle took place that flew in the face of what God supposedly would never do again - bring Jewish people back to the land after almost two millennium. Yet as unexpected and grand and as noteworthy as this return was it was founded on humanistic and secular principles that gives the flesh a reason to glory and compliment itself. That's a hard thing to say but the Lord will not share His glory and will not become partners with anything that has even the smallest particle of man's efforts motivating it. The present return (many times over-hyped as the true return) is something that God has allowed but is not fully ready to give His blessings to. There's too much for man to glory in presently and before all is over God will have laid low every thought man has that He has done this his own self. There's a purpose in the process of God allowing Israel to return in a sort of probationary period if you will. Part of that purpose is to show that even in the noblest of human intentions that the nations showed toward Israel after WWII and in spite of the highest humanistic aspirations of present secular Jewry in Israel it shows that man left to himself is still hopelessly dead in his sins. That's what present Israel is a manifestaion and lesson of. So a miracle of regeneration and life from the dead is the only alternative. God will let the present secular state go as far as it can before His set time of redemption. Then it will be known that only God could have done it.

I'm likely sounding a little preachy and going on too long but in my opinion scripture seems to denote a change in the attitude of the nations toward Israel when the true return spoken of in prophecy begins to take place.

Isaiah 60:4
"Lift up your eyes round about, and see; they all gather together, they come to you. Your sons will come from afar, and your daughters will be carried in their arms."

So a return will definitely take place after the final time of Jacob's trouble.

There's also Isaiah 66:20 and verses like Isaiah 49:22,

'Thus says the Lord God, "Behold, I will ift up My hand to the nations, and set up My standard to the peoples; and they (the nations) will bring your sons in their bosom, and your daughters will be carried on their shoulders." ( Isa 49:22)

Nations formerly hostile to Israel sat the end of the age will have changed their tune in my opinion and will even actively assist in helping Jewish survivors return to the land. That's when Israel will eat of the rich of the nations because the nations will now be supporting the much maligned and "lowly" Jew and their long absent King.

"Then their offspring will be known among the nations, and their descendants in the midst of the peoples. All who see them will recognize them, because they are the offspring whom the Lord has blessed." (Isaiah 61:9)

What the nations and a large part of the church formerly deemed impossible will have occurred and Jewish survivors will return to the land. All humanism and carnal boasting boasting about their ancestry will have been removed from them and they will ready to give glory to God only (Zeph 3:12-13) as they become a blessing to the whole earth under the rule of their long absent King. Id properly understood, in my opinion, this will not go one iota topward nullifying equal access to the Father by Jew and Gentile alike. Neither will it go one iota toward reestablishing a wall agaion of partition between Jew and Gentile. If Gentiles can become full participants in a covenant made with Israel then no one is getting short changed.

Isaiah 27:13
"It will come about in that day that a great trumpet will be blown; and those who are perishing in the land of Assyria and who were scattered in the land of Egypt will come and worship the Lord in the holy mountain at Jerusalem."

The trumpet here in my opinion is the one spoken of by Jesus in Matt 24:31 and is the last trumpet spoken of in I Cor 15:52. AFTER THE TRIBULATION of those days (Matt 24;29). That's when the true return begins to occur in my opinion. These who will return are spoken of in Ezekiel 37:21-22 and other places. God will have laid low the pride of man and of the church who say that such a thing will never happen and is utterly IMPOSSIBLE! Yet God will have undeniably proved and vindicated Himself as the God who raises the dead and has always hidden Himself from the pride of man. What will be more shattering to the pride of sinful man and a unbelieving church than the resurrection of Israel from spiritual death and a TRUE RETURN of a believing remnant?

That's more than you likely were looking for and I realize you may not believe all of it. Excuse me for being long winded. Folks are free to disagree of course.

Blessings from here.


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David Winter

 2014/12/12 20:15Profile
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 Re: Thoughts on a TRUE RETURN

How many "full blooded" Jews are still left?

Which ones will return?

If someone is 1/16 Jew do they go?


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Todd

 2014/12/14 11:54Profile
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 Re: Thoughts on a TRUE RETURN

- How many "full blooded" Jews are still left?

- Which ones will return?

- If someone is 1/16 Jew do they go?

Doc: I'm writing from a premillennial non allegorical perspective of course and I realize there are those who disagree.

Accoring to current Jewish census records there are approximately 6,186,000 Jews in Israel as of 2014. Worldwide the Jewish population numbers about 13.3 million. Jewish people make up about .018% percent of the world population and Jewish population growth is near 0% as of now. God's preservation of this people over the centuries has been nothing less than a MIRACLE. In my opinion he presently growing anti-semitism that is happening is a prophetic sign in itself that the gospel and the eschatologiocal prphecies are true.

I don't know specifically which ones will return but my opinion is that Jews from all the nations, perhaps all Jews from all nations, will return in that post-tribulational day. Many that return will likely be among tnhose who fled from Israel when the man of sin/AC begins his persecuting career against the Jews and the church. However many do return, scripture states that eventually, "they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, for I will forgive their iiquity, and their sins I will remember no more" (Jeremiah 31:34). And "My Spirit which is upon you, and My words which I have put in your mouth, shall not depart from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your offspring, nor ferom the motuh of your offspring's offspring,"says the Lord, "From now and forever" (Isaiah 59:21) So everyone in Isarel from the least to the greatest will know the Lord and Israel will exist as a ALL SAVED nation during the length of the millennium. Belief in Christ's atoning death and His righteousness will be the foundation - "In His days, Judah will be saved, and Israzel will dwell securely; and this is the name by which He will be called, 'The Lord our righteousness.' (Ezekiel 23:6) God will end up vindicates as the only perfect nation builder. The presence once again of Israel's risen and long absent King won't hurt things either I'm thinking!

Meanwhile, a change will have come in the attitude of the nations towrd Israel and their God,

"And many nations will join themselves to the Lord in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you. And the Lord will possess Judah as His portion in the holy land, and will again choose Jerusalem. Be silent, all flesh, before the Lord; for He is aroused from His holy habitation" (Zechariah 2:11-13)

I don't know if someone who is 1/16 Jew will return. Really it seems a type of nit picky question that masks a certain skepticism regarding a return. I may be wrong but it appears trivial in that regard.

Thanks.


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David Winter

 2014/12/15 7:49Profile
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 Re:

It is not trivial. What % of Jews in the US marry Gentiles? I suspect it's fairly high. And how much "watering down" has occurred over the centuries?

To me it is just a practical issue.


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Todd

 2014/12/15 10:33Profile
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 Re: It's not trivial

You are likely right. I may have misread you and I'm sorry if I did. If the Lord can preserve 7,000 to not bow the knee to Baal then in His providential soverignty I would think He can preserve a group or remnant in the way He sees fit. It's not a racial superiority type of thing. How many return and who returns is something He will oversee but I am believing who He wants there will be there. Zechariah 2:11 is as intriguing to me almost as much as the return.

Thank you again.


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David Winter

 2014/12/15 12:04Profile





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