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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Faith is a FREE GIFT to you totally initiated by God without out any of your doing at all!

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

What does the true Gospel require of us? The biblical answer begins with repentance, faith, baptism and continued, loyal obedience to Christ. But identifying what the Gospel requires of us is not the same thing as saying what the true Gospel actually is. This list of duties correctly identifies the proper response to the Gospel—not the Gospel itself.

The Gospel is a particular message of good tidings, heralded through Christ and the apostles (but only rarely by modern evangelists). It is called "the Gospel of the Kingdom" (e.g., Matt.4:23; 9:35; 24:14), because it is the proclamation of the presence of another Kingdom and another King—one Jesus (Luke 2:10-11; Isa.52:7; Acts 17:7; 20:25). This entire proclamation can be summarized by the original Christian confession: "Jesus is Lord [i.e., King]." This is what one must confess, in order to be saved (Rom.10:9). It is because He is the King that we must repent (of our former neglect of His lordship), trust Him, and be baptized into His alternative, royal society. Obedience is the obvious response to Lordship:

"Why do you call me 'Lord,' 'Lord,' and you do not do what I say?" (Luke 6:46)

One is not saved by the perfection of his/her obedience, but by the determination to obey completely. This is what happens when one hears, believes, and does not rebel against the proclamation of Christ's Kingship. Baptism is the public submission to the Crown, and a pledge to loyally follow Him until death. Many reduce the Gospel to a decree of justification only. However, justification, in the context of the Kingdom of Christ, is simply the amnesty granted by the King to penitent rebels, as they return in submission to the Authority they formerly spurned.

One is not saved by 80% obedience—nor by 100% obedience. One is saved by having genuinely embraced the King and the life that logically follows from having such a King. None obeys completely, but we are commanded to do so, and true disciples have every intention of doing so. Failure to obey completely is a breach of the King's law, but it is not, in itself, damning. To inadvertently violate the speed limit is not to renounce your citizenship. Likewise, a child is not disowned by his parents because he forgets to do a particular assigned chore. There is grace in this Kingdom for those whose disobedience springs from weakness, ignorance or temporary insanity (James 3:2), and not from rebellion (Matt.26:41).

The Gospel is not a message of performance-oriented acceptance with God. We are saved by the grace of the Crown, and we obey because we love the King. If we do not love the King, whatever begrudged obedience we may render is a sham. It is not salvation.


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Todd

 2014/12/4 7:05Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Churchman went on further to say;

[Just-100] The works of man, do no more towards making Christ to be the all-sufficient savior of the world, than towards making him to be God and man; but to have salvation from this free-given, perfect savior, all is requisite, all is to be worked, labored, and done, which he commands us to have, and do, and be. Therefore saith St. Paul of this perfect savior, "that he is the author of salvation (N.B.) to all that obey him." Here you see what an error it is, to speak of savior and salvation, as one and the same thing, equally free and independent on man's works. The perfect, all-sufficient savior, is the free gift of God, that all men might be saved: but salvation is no free gift, but stands in the utmost contrariety to it; it is to be purchased. A savior you cannot, you need not buy, he is already given you without price and without money; but all the salvation that you can have, must be bought of this savior, there is nothing gratis here. But what are you to give for it? All that you have from fallen Adam, all that the world, the flesh, and the devil have treasured up in you; nay, houses, lands, fathers, mothers, brethren, &c., are all to be forsaken, they must all of them lose that place and power, that they had in you, or you have no salvation, though you never wanted a free-given savior.


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Ron Halverson

 2014/12/4 8:40Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re:

Oh to be troubled by a culture with thousands of people doing good works in hope of winning a place in the Kingdom!

Our conversation here would be as the gibberish of a foreign tongue to this culture, obsessed with wanton pursuits of pleasure and revenge, status and wealth, drugs and death. Those who believe in values like ours are mocked and dismissed, as if we were the deviants of society!

Such a reality is a strong call to us to do the works of the Kingdom, beginning with actually believing in the unmerited grace of God, and on into binding up wounds and calling sin by its real name. ISIS is being praised, race baiting celebrities are using lies to foment anarchy, government officials are bankrupting whole countries- this could be a long list and it all leads to broken lives. We need to be seen as the antidote to all this, and it is by our righteous works that we will represent God's grace to our world.

"Go ye into all the world, teaching men to observe all things which I have commanded."

Hmmmmm. Sounds like work to be done...


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Tom Cameron

 2014/12/4 11:10Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I think it's important for us to keep in mind here what separates biblical Christianity from the kingdom of the cults and false religions. For example, JWs, Mormons and Catholics emphasize doing certain works to earn or gain acceptance by God based on those works mixed with their supposed faith. But the biblical gospel says it's not faith plus works that saves us or keeps us saved, but rather faith plus nothing equals salvation. Faith alone is clearly taught as the grounds of our salvation throughout the Bible. That's what the reformation was largely about. Works follow after we are saved by faith alone in Christ alone. And works are an evidence of the genuineness of our faith.

Our faith must work through love-Gal.5:6, that is, through God's love shed abroad in our hearts whereby we cry out Abba Father. We love Him because He first loved us. One important and crucial element must be gratitude as the motive for doing good works, not merely fear of punishment or fear of losing one's salvation. Fear does play a part in our sanctification but it cannot be just fear or else we are in danger of trying to serve a God we do not really love or really have faith in.

We are to rest in the free, unmerited grace of God by faith. Again, we do not rely on our works or performance to save us or keep us in the faith. We rely solely on Jesus Christ and what He has done and accomplished for us through the cross. When we repent and trust Christ we receive a foreign/alien righteousness from God by faith, a righteousness that we could never muster up on our own-Philippians 3:8-9. Our sins are imputed to Christ's account-1Pet.3:18; 2Cor.5:21, and His righteousness is imputed to our account. It's what's considered by many as the great exchange of justification by faith. Like the old hymn says, "My sin—oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!—My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more, Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!"

Yes, we must work while it is still day. But if we rely on our works to save us or keep us saved we will not enter into the rest we are to have in Christ and instead will fall into a trap of the enemy.

Again, I fear that many of us (professing Christians) rely too much on the feeble web of our own performance. I think it's something we all tend to struggle with at times even as born again believers because in our corrupt nature there is a tendency to be Pharisaic or legalistic.

I want to be like Paul who was quick to point out that anything good in him and any good works done by him were the direct result of God's grace at work in and through him-1Cor.15:10.


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Oracio

 2014/12/4 14:04Profile









 Re:

"I think it's important for us to keep in mind here what separates biblical Christianity from the kingdom of the cults and false religions... But the biblical gospel says it's not faith plus works that saves us or keeps us saved, but rather faith plus nothing equals salvation."

I'd say the biblical gospel is that 'they will know we are Christians by our love', not by our beliefs. I'm reminded 'even the demons believe'. And let's not stop at belief. Rejoice in your belief but they aren't separate.

Scripture is clear that we will know a tree by it's fruits but it's also starts with a seed.

Seeds get planted all the time but how many grow? Sure the seed has everything it needs to become a tree but the seed is a seed. The tree and it's fruit is the result.

Divorcing the two, isn't what Jesus taught. This discussion was originally about faith and grace being a gift, yet producing something.

Let's not divide the baby. This isn't an 'either/or' discussion. Nor it is a 'us or them' discussion.

If you are focusing on the seed, that is faith/grace, rejoice. If you are focusing on the tree and it's fruit, rejoice. But don't divide the two, as that is destructive. If I remove a seed from the ground and frame it, as I would a picture, there would be no tree and fruit to live off of. Also, if I were to look at a tree and it's fruit but speak less of it's seeds, I destroy the circle of life within tree.

Let's bind together. Not divide.

 2014/12/4 15:03
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
I'd say the biblical gospel is that 'they will know we are Christians by our love', not by our beliefs. I'm reminded 'even the demons believe'. And let's not stop at belief. Rejoice in your belief but they aren't separate.


We are not saved by our love for one another. The gospel is not "Love one another and you will be saved" but rather believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Love for one another is indeed a fruit of our salvation, but God's grace and our faith in Christ's finished work are the root or foundation. Many put the cart before the horse in this regard and err greatly. This is not just a matter of semantics or non-essentials but is at the heart of the gospel message and therefore so vital.


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Oracio

 2014/12/4 17:50Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re:

I could not lay this out more clearly than Oracio has.

Those of us who are married know what it is like to do something for our spouse, anticipating that they will experience pleasure, and that will give us pleasure because of our connection- we share the joy.

So it is with the Father when the Spirit lives inside. His pleasure is our desire, His desire is our pleasure, and around again. It is not about earning salvation or anything else at this point, it is about being that for which we were intended in the first place.

It is getting on board with the Father and the Son- "I always do that which pleases the Father," and "This is My beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased!"

Welcome to the best circle there is!


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Tom Cameron

 2014/12/4 20:03Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Amen Sidewalk.

I don't like to give the impression that I promote a cheap grace easy-believism "gospel" message of no repentance and no cost on our part. But in this thread I felt led to emphasize the side of grace and faith as the grounds of our justification.

Yesterday when I was doing a little research on this topic of saving faith I came across this quote from a poster on another forum and thought it was so good that I thought I'd share it here. In reference to the kind of gospel message we are to preach he wrote, "it's not about simply getting them to believe a simple truth and, whew, it's all done, I can breathe and rest in things now. It's not making a decision, then resting on that laurel. It is a life of discipleship, continuing to rest in Christ's righteousness, and that alone. Continuing to mortify sin, eschewing evil, loving that which is righteous. Continuing to realize our great ineptitude of rightly keeping God's Law and, thus, being shut up to faith in Christ all over again. And so goes the cycle, and the life of a disciple, always trusting in Christ, always endeavoring unto new obedience, always knowing that it is Christ's work alone that grants him merit before God, etc."

On another note, respectfully, I would not recommend saying to unsaved people what is stated as the title of this thread. For believers to discuss these things is fine but saying to an unsaved person that man has no part to play in believing will only confuse them all the more. Not only that but the statement is not completely accurate even if it's true that God grants saving faith apart from man's effort. Let me explain. Even if God grants to His elect, freely by His sovereign grace, the ability to believe unto salvation, the elect still are the ones that actually do the believing. God does not believe for us. We believe unto salvation. So we do indeed play a part regardless of what side of this debate we are on.


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Oracio

 2014/12/4 22:13Profile









 Re:

How can people, in this thread, say basically what I'm saying in this thread (which it's both), then to say 'no...'. I simply don't understand how. This is perplexing to me.

 2014/12/4 22:39
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
How can people, in this thread, say basically what I'm saying in this thread (which it's both), then to say 'no...'. I simply don't understand how. This is perplexing to me.


In case you had me in mind I'll try to explain. At first I was trying to reason that when it comes to God's sovereignty in salvation and man's responsibility, the Bible seems to teach both and therefore we should be careful not to emphasize one of those above the other.

But then the thread started going into the issue of faith and works and how we are saved or justified in God's sight. That's when I got concerned that some here may be basing their acceptance with God not only on faith in Christ but also on their works or performance or obedience. At that point I tried pointing out that it's not faith plus works that justifies us but rather faith alone in Christ alone, and that works come after faith and justification and are part of our sanctification.

There is a huge difference between one who is doing good works from a right motive and from a right foundation of justification by faith alone in Christ alone, and one who is trying to serve and please God solely out of fear of punishment or losing salvation. One has a blessed assurance of salvation (which God wants for all His children), and the other is in bondage and needs to be set free from trying to keep the law as a means of justification.


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Oracio

 2014/12/4 23:12Profile





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