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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Word of Faith - Michael Brown

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5827
NC, USA

 Re:

Check out:

www.askdrbrown.org/Justin-peters-Benny-Hinn-and-the-pursuit-of-truth/


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Todd

 2014/11/17 13:23Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2012
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

Just a few observations about the topic that come to mind as I read.

First, the teaching that healing is in the atonement of Christ did not originate with the WOF movement. It actually came from the foundations of 20th century Pentecost. Charles Parham taught it and F.F. Bosworth, a close personal friend of Parham's, wrote a book called Christ the Healer that laid out the doctrine fairly clearly. The WOF movement, coming out of the Pentecostal movement simply continued in this doctrine.

Second and actually the reason for my post...and how do I say this so that it comes out right?

Almost every error is in reality a truth exalted to the exclusion of another truth or other truths. It is a lot like a pair of colored glasses. A particular truth becomes revelation to us, and we immediately go in whole hog after that revelation. If we are not careful, we cannot see anything but that one revelation and we view all other truth through the lens of that revelation. We become attracted to the specific teachers who are also teaching that revelation. We scour the scripture for evidence of and support for that revelation. And over the course of time, we begin to get out of balance. From that unbalanced perspective, we begin to misread or misinterpret scripture. Eventually we can even begin to believe false doctrines.

If we believe for a moment that this process only plays itself out in "those other guys who don't see it the way I see it" we are deceived.

There is truth in the WOF movement. There is also truth in those who would so ardently resist and oppose the WOF movement. There is error in the WOF movement. There is also error in those who so ardently oppose the EOF movement. We are born again, but we are not yet glorified. Therefor we are still susceptible to error. None of us has all of the revelation. None of us has it all right.

It is vitally important that we realize this one simple fact. If we fail to realize that we are all fallible then we can very rapidly succumb to what we would call spiritual pride. We decry anyone who does not agree with the unique doctrinal slant that we and our favorite teachers hold to.

I think it is critical that we become students of the word of God and that we realize that simply studying the writings of other men and their view on scripture will not be enough to keep us on the right path. We must study the word for ourselves.

This is one of the reasons why I do not like denominationalism. Believers need to fellowship with one another across the narrow boundaries we set due to our own unique slants on scripture. I grew up in very traditional pentecostal ranks. I need to fellowship with Oracio, for example, and have the opportunity to give and receive of the word of God. He can challenge me and I can challenge him, and if we both have the right attitude and are both willing to conform to the word of God, we will both be much better for it. We may never agree on everything, but we need to understand that neither of us has it all.




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Travis

 2014/11/17 13:28Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Quote:
TMK: "I think the problem is that for whatever reason some Christians suppress their own discernment about some things for various reasons. If we would just heed immediately instead of quenching we would be much better off."


It could be also be due to subtle forms of idolatry - such as idolizing preachers or your denomination/local church, and depending on them for truth and spiritual growth (perhaps also as a source of love, identity and security). It replaces Christ because the Christian life is one of full dependence on Him.

Something I read recently (it's by Dustin Horstmann):

"It's much easier to receive truth from others if we don't see them as Jesus.

If we do see them as Jesus, we are likely to drink in everything they say without prayer or thought.

Then, after this has hurt us, we are likely to completely write people off who show some imperfection.

But when Jesus has our gaze, we can receive from those who are imperfectly reflecting His glory.

We can love them."

 2014/11/17 14:37Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

TMK, thanks for the link. I had already seen Justin Peters' article that responds to this and Justin gives a different side of this issue.....which I guess you would expect! Some of the comments posted below the linked article on Michael Brown's website are interesting and few call him out in his error of judgement. I also think he is mistaken in his association with Hinn. Although he keeps saying he is not a defender of Hinn, why does he consistently defends him??? And at the same time claim he does not really know much about Hinn's ministry (which is very odd).

It does not take a lot of discernment to see where Hinn is coming from. It is this that disturbs me the most about MB's stance. I have heard stuff where Benny has claimed he has repented about stuff and spoken against false teaching, but he has an empire to run and he has to keep ahead of the game and keep as many on board as he can. When he gives away his mansion, jets and all the wealth he has got from his years of fleecing the sheep, I might think about taking him seriously!


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Dave

 2014/11/17 15:12Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1717
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

The link is a little helpful. I agree with Dave, though. Brown's quasi defense of Hinn, or at least his refusal to go farther in holding Hinn accountable for recent heresies and horrible practices, strikes me as a sort of "that was then, this is now" two step. I would take Brown a lot more seriiously if he would engage RECENT Hinn statements like these:

An email from Hinn in 2013, well before Brown's blog from Feb. 2014

Quote:

“Let me quickly explain about this historic miracle: A long-time and beloved friend of mine and of this ministry shared something with me this week that literally touched me to the core!

“Benny,” he said, “God wants your ministry to be completely out of debt, and I want to plant an anointed seed that will help you take a giant step toward becoming totally debt-free!”
Now this is a very precious man of God whom I have known and loved more than three decades. He has been such a blessing to the cause of Christ. So when he said this, needless to say, I was thrilled beyond words at his unbelievable generosity and the remarkable timeliness of his offer.
You see, even as God has given us a new beginning, we have faced incredible challenges as a ministry as a result of things that happened in the past few years. At the same time our broken home was attracting attention from worldwide news services, the economies of so many of the countries where our partners live have been hit mercilessly. As a result, some of our partners decided to suspend giving or to simply walk away.
And while we have seen God beginning to restore so much, one of the last pieces of the puzzle has been our finances. So you can only imagine how it nearly took my breath away when he told me how much…
But then there was something more this man of God added:
Benny, God has laid it on my heart to plant a seed of $2.5 million into your ministry, but God only wants me to make this gift if the ministry partners match the amount within 90 days! I feel so strongly that He wants them to be part of the supernatural wealth transfer that is coming to every believer who will obey God’s Word.
What could I say? Immediately I saw the hand of God in this. Our Lord could have simply used our friend to plant the seed and be blessed immeasurably by it. But it was so evident that God wants to provide an even greater miracle than the $2.5 million. He desires for our partners and ministry friends to be blessed as they join together with this precious man of God by planting a much larger seed into the work of the Lord, and, in so doing, doubling the blessings.
I quickly told him, “I cannot say no. When I share with my partners what God is doing, they will jump at the chance to be part of this amazing opportunity. I just know it!” ....

This Incredible Season of Miracles Begins Now
That’s why I am now coming to you through this urgent and time-dated letter. We have an astonishing opportunity to release an amazing $5 million harvest into this ministry by matching an incredible $2.5 million gift in the next 90 days, or the opportunity will pass. We cannot let that happen. Not now. Not during this incredible season!
My dear friend who is planting this seed has lived the principle of giving unselfishly to the Gospel throughout his life and ministry, and he has been fabulously successful. I believe, with him, that this is a unique moment in time—an awesome season of debt cancellation—as the wealth transfer takes place to God’s people around the world.
God’s Word proclaims that His grace is “sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness” (2 Corinthians 12:9). Because of God’s grace, He wants to restore your home, your favor, your protection, your fellowship with Him, and so much more. And I truly believe that as you take part in this great challenge as we match this $2.5 million gift together, you will see a miraculous breakthrough in breaking the bondages of debt during the next 90 days.
Your Double Harvest Miracle
Are you ready for God to do the “impossible” in your life!
Are you ready to see your harvest doubled?
Are you ready to see your debt cancelled in the next 90 days?
Imagine not dreading going to the mailbox, no bills piling up on your counter, and no calls from collectors coming to your home. God wants to wipe your debt out! Every bit of it…and in the next 90 days!
This is an appointed hour. Imagine: Your $100 gift immediately doubles to $200. Your $500 seed literally becomes $1,000. If God leads you to plant $10,000, it instantly grows into a $20,000 seed! And your double seed, sown bountifully, will reap bountifully through the supernatural law of multiplication!
Only God could provide something like this—a double harvest for you. And the more you plant, the more you will reap!
The anointing for biblical abundance is being released. As you step into this miracle by faith, it will be poured out upon you, too! Your giving is literally the weapon that breaks the bondage of debt in this ministry and in your home during the next 90 days.
Plant your seed-gift now, then begin confessing over every bill, every debt, and every area of financial struggle in your life:
“With God I’m coming out of debt in 90 days!!!”
These repeated confessions will be constant reminders of the financial breakthrough that is coming to you."





http://www.bennyhinn.org/emailletters/9236/breaking-the-bondage-of-debt-during-the-next-90-days

This remains in his website even today.

If you lay down with dogs, you get up with fleas. I think Brown has erred in judgment. I am not yet to the point of mistaking his scratching for grooming.


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Tim

 2014/11/17 16:09Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

This is a brief, yet pretty informative article on WOF:

http://www.gotquestions.org/Word-Faith.html


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Oracio

 2014/11/17 16:53Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

In the Michael Brown broadcast shared in the OP, Brown condemns the teaching which says that Jesus took upon Himself the nature of Satan in hell and became born again. He says it’s the most serious heresy within the WOF movement. Yet at the same time in that same broadcast he seems to defend and commend Kenneth Hagin, one who clearly taught that very heresy. Is not Dr. Brown aware that Hagin taught that? It is quite confusing.


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Oracio

 2014/11/17 17:49Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Quote:
Oracio: "In the Michael Brown broadcast shared in the OP, Brown condemns the teaching which says that Jesus took upon Himself the nature of Satan in hell and became born again. He says it’s the most serious heresy within the WOF movement. Yet at the same time in that same broadcast he seems to defend and commend Kenneth Hagin, one who clearly taught that very heresy. Is not Dr. Brown aware that Hagin taught that? It is quite confusing."


Well, if you are seeking a preacher with impeccable theology and whose speech is above reproach all the time, you will be disappointed looking for that in man - including preachers who are listed here on SermonIndex. You would have to look to God for that.

Can someone share about distinguishing between (i) a false teacher, and (ii) a true disciple of Christ with bits of wrong theology?

 2014/11/17 17:58Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

Quote:
Well, if you are seeking a preacher with impeccable theology and whose speech is above reproach all the time, you will be disappointed looking for that in man - including preachers who are listed here on SermonIndex. You would have to look to God for that.


Agreed yuehan, we must take a lot of things with a grain of salt, whether it's teaching by Michael Brown, Hank Hanegraaf, or John MacArthur. However there are some serious deviations from the gospel that we cannot be lenient towards or compromise with. That's the thing with the WOF movement. There is serious deviation. Much of it is cultish in nature.


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Oracio

 2014/11/17 18:44Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

I missed that bit where Brown commends Kennith Hagin, but if he does then he really is confused. Everyone knows that Hagin is the 'Daddy' of the WoF movement, so how can you criticise the WoF and commend Hagin at the same time.
Many years ago when I was influenced by and listened to much of Hagin, Copeland, et al it was seeing that Hagin had been very closly copying the teaching of E W Kenyon that open my eyes to this deception. Kenyon was in to metaphysics and how you can create your own reality. Hagin taught exactly the same.
If Brown does not know these facts and understand the serrious error of people like Hagin he shoul keep quiet and not claim to speak as one who has authority. He will lead many astray with his commendations.


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Dave

 2014/11/18 2:33Profile





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