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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Demonic Oppression or Just Plain Fleshliness

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 Demonic Oppression or Just Plain Fleshliness

This is something that I have been seriously praying about. I am currently involved with a deliverenace ministry and after a few years I am still trying to figure out the difference between oppression from the enemy, and just plain fleshly sinfulness. I have walked people through renunciation prayers and been through all of the great authors material on deliverance, but yet I still see people fall. Of course I am not looking for perfection in their life, but it has led me to my knees to seek God on this.

I have come to the conclusion that when it comes to deliverance from demonic influences in our lives, Christ will deal with that ( or already did at the ressurection). But Christ will not crucify our flesh for us. He has given that responsibility to us, but not by the power of us Romans 8:13 . WE put the deeds of the flesh to death, but it is by the Spirit that we can even do that. So Christ has given us the responsibilty to to preform it, but He has given us the power to accomplish it. If we have flesh that is still lingering in areas of our lives, we are providing nourishment to the demons that are oppressing us. Satan is also known as the lord of the flies, and I have never seen a fly hang around a beautiful smelling rose. They are around flesh, rotting flesh. What I have seen is there has been a shift in some deliverance ministries to focus on the demonic oppression in peoples lives and not on the flesh in their lives. I'm not saying that there is not demonic influences going on in that individuals life, but what if we are trying to over spiritualize the fact that that person just needs to get on the cross? Or maybe we are trying to force God's hand to move in their life without the brokeness ( poor in spirit) coming first? We are not the breakers, we are the meer hammer that the Breaker may use.

I see this in my own life. When a sinful thought comes into my head uninvited, what is that? A demon, or my flesh wanting to get fed because it is hungry? Possibly both? I think this is something we need to come to understand in regards to our sanctification. I have come out of crystal meth addiction, alcohol addiction, sexual addiction etc. and Jesus radically gave me new life. He removed those demons that led me to a life of addiction. As glorious as that is, my flesh still desires to be fed. Now am I to say everytime those sinful thoughts come into my head that it is a demon and rebuke it in the name of Jesus? Or is it a flesh problem that needs more crucifixion? Once again, possibly both?

I like to ask my self these questions to understand the kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of God more. And especially when it comes to ministering to others in need of Christ. Let me know yall's thoughts.

Your brother,
Travis


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Travis Cunningham

 2014/11/14 9:33Profile
davidkeel
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Joined: 2006/5/11
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 Re: Demonic Oppression or Just Plain Fleshliness

I have a testimony Travis ... I have knowingly (to me and others) been set free from over 30 evil spirits at different times.

A major change came after I started to drive out unforgiveness of other people out of my heart. I couldn't get anywhere in my walk for years, as a last resort I tried forgiveness as i had previously only relied on the moving of the Holy Spirit as I had relied upon Jesus to change me by faith.

I was on a train when I realized i couldn't stop holding grudges against someone. I had had this bitterness in my heart every day for 3 years, day after day. But that day it dawned on me how bad I was.
I told God I would try to forgive this guy and if I ever got tempted to have a wrong or malicious thought about him again I would cause myself not to think about it by rejecting it out of my mind.

It was after I prayed that prayer the temptation of hell came upon me to give up the idea of doing it or even that I could do it. The devil telling me it was not possible except by a special work of Gods grace. And his temptation was coming over me in waves, but i was going to fight this. I had tried that method for years of waiting for God to come and change me and I realized I could be waiting for the rest of my life, especially as God kept convicting me to change.

The following day I by chance met the very guy i had held unforgiveness towards. And there was nothing left in my heart concerning bitterness towards him. And I loved him.
This breaking of unforgiveness was the gateway that led to me being delivered from many evil spirits in a prayer meeting.
And I had previously been having deliverance by a minister a year before this. He wasn't able to get rid of anything from me.


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David Keel

 2014/11/14 10:56Profile
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 Re:

Wow what a testimony! I would say God ordained that meeting to confirm to His son that a change had occured. Thanks for sharing that, very encouraging.


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Travis Cunningham

 2014/11/14 11:05Profile
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You said : "It was after I prayed that prayer the temptation of hell came upon me to give up the idea of doing it or even that I could do it. The devil telling me it was not possible except by a special work of Gods grace." Thank you for sharing this part. This is so huge in so many peoples lives that we meet on a daily basis. I do believe that God can change someone in an instant miraculously, but for others God is telling us to do something before He comes in. And it is the devil that is keeping us in the mindset of "just wait on God to come and change you." And for years and years we wait on God and God is waiting on us to repent and be obedient! Is it true that God will come in and save and deliver us? Absolutely! But on the flip side what is He telling you to do first? that is of supremem importance! Thanks for sharing David, really opened my eyes to some areas in my life and others. Bless you bro!

Travis


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Travis Cunningham

 2014/11/14 11:13Profile
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Joined: 2006/5/11
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 Re:

Thanks for the encouragement I'm glad you are encouraged Travis.

I was also deeply effected by sexual desires and began being sexually active from about 6 years old, It became a very powerful addiction in my life.
Yet again I waited for Gods restoration but I only ever felt conviction.

It was when a time came in my life when I thought I would die I knew I had to try and do something to repent and I was angry at God for not having helped me. Then I began to reject all of the temptations toward sexual thoughts in my mind and I was doing that night and day for months. I tied my hands to my bed so I wouldn't touch myself in my sleep and arouse myself. I know that sounds crazy , but when you experience God truly coming next to you and loving you, you would do things like that for Him and give up things.

Because I was so afraid of dying and not being ready to meet God I did it. After a couple of months of resisting my flesh evil spirits started coming out of me. And they shook me in my bed as they came out of me. As they left I would hear the title of what the spirit was called and what sin it had occupied in my life.

I was being led by God to go up into the hills every night as He would come and whisper to me and wake me up and say to me "It's time".
When I was up in the hills I was crying most nights as I became softer and broken and the spirit would come to me each night I was there like a lover and comfort me and told me not to give up.
All this is true, ask the Lord, he is God and knows it all.


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David Keel

 2014/11/14 12:53Profile
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 Re:

Travis,

You did hit on the very truth when it comes to deliverance. People MUST want to be delivered and crucify their flesh. If one is not truly broken and contrite over their sin with a Godly sorrow, repentance will not be granted.

I would like to share my experiences in finally being set free in a number of areas of my life. First off I am not a big fan of deliverance ministries/ministers and here is why.

After being saved I went to many meetings where a deliverance/healing ministry would take place and saw many things over my first 9 years as a Christian. I saw people falling on the ground, slain by a spirit (with a small s), tears, crying, screaming, etc.. Much fan fare at the very least. The problem was I never saw anything, within my reach of course, of any lasting fruit. For the most part I saw people, family, friends, and MYSELF going back to the vomit.

After 9 years of struggling and toiling in my flesh as a Christian I get filled with the Holy Spirit. Now getting victory over my flesh is much different. I am seeing the word of God in a more powerful way and having the indwelling Spirit within me changed things up for me a great deal.

Before the Baptism, I was running after God, crying out to Him, yet falling and caving into my flesh over and over. I was desperate, miserable, and truly sincere in wanting to be set free. Many around me in church were having the same struggles and disappointments. We would cave into various temptations and come together and confess them to one another and some how that made things better for a while, the problem was it never lasted.

A worldly sorrow was present but it did not lead to the gift of repentance. Fast forward.

Once I was filled with the Holy Spirit some of my struggles just stopped I believe by being exposed to the TRUTH in a very meaningful way. I believe there are 4 ways people get delivered/set free and this first part that took place in me I would call Truth Deliverance.

John 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; (32) And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

As Brother David Keel shared in his experience, I believe a second form of deliverance is Resistance Deliverance. As we resist the devil and temptation we undoubtedly will see another level of deliverance because it is a promise and God does not lie. As we humble ourselves and look to God satan will go, and God will give us the victory.

James 4:6-10 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. (7) Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (8) Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. (9) Be afflicted, and mourn, and weep: let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to heaviness. (10) Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

A third method of deliverance would be Praise Deliverance. As we praise and worship God from a pure heart this to will set demons to flight.

1 Samuel 16:16,23 Let our lord now command thy servants, which are before thee, to seek out a man, who is a cunning player on an harp: and it shall come to pass, when the evil spirit from God is upon thee, that he shall play with his hand, and thou shalt be well.(23) And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.

Finally and most importantly is Faith Deliverance which the above 3 methods would also encompass. It is not how loud one yells at the devil, and I have seen a lot of that, but rather believing in our position and authority in Christ by faith. Luke 10:17-19, Matthew 28:18-20, Mark 16:17-20

By Gods amazing grace I had the opportunity to sit in a very small home fellowship and receive teaching and instruction and I believe this to be very key in one truly seeking and desiring to be set free.

The man who taught us for several years used to travel 3 hours each way for nearly 7 years to teach a handful of sincere believers. When he began to teach on deliverance we all began to see a need in our own lives for further deliverance in our own lives.

Mind you we had already experienced a great level of deliverance through Truth, Resistance, and Praise over many months. However when we went to this man and asked him to help us in various areas of our lives he refused to take us through deliverance and encouraged us to submit to the teaching prayerfully.

Finally it came the time to address our request about his assistance in receiving further deliverance. His answer was that he felt if we would submit to the teaching and apply it by faith we would each take our own selves through deliverance and his reasoning was that we had the same authority he had and the reality was we needed to be sincere realizing that if we commanded spirits to leave we had better be ready to maintain that deliverance through obedience to Gods word lest we end up 7 times worse.

We all took the teaching and advise and took ourselves through deliverance. Like this dear brother in the Lord taught us we teach others likewise. Like him, I have had not a few sincere Christians ask for help in casting out
demons and I first start with where they are it with the Holy Spirit, secondly I share the word regarding deliverance and being set free, and then tell them to make sure they are ready to submit and obey in order to remain free and not return to fulfilling the lust of the flesh.

I have had the privilege of seeing many take themselves through deliverance and have assisted a few only as a prayerful bystander sharing only things the Holy Spirit might reveal in order for these precious souls complete their own deliverance.

Again from my own experience, my deliverance started with confession and repentance and basically going through my life, sins, and experiences closing open doors I opened by an act of my own will and then I would confess, renounce, and put the acts of disobedience under the blood of Jesus by faith.

Areas the Lord would have me clean up in my life were my involvement in ungodly demonic music (Rock & Roll), organized religion especially my heritage (my parents are Italian, I love the food and my family, but there are strong spirits of idolatry and pride you would not believe, both parents were saved PTL and with Jesus today)and my involvement in the catholic church, the medical industry, religious images (statues,crosses, pictures of Jesus?), Christmas, Easter, Politics, etc..

The list is way to long and specific, because the above subheadings would have very long lists underneath each that I would have to renounce as the Holy Spirit would reveal them to me. I always had a paper and pen and would jot down each thing the HS brought to mind. A particularly long list that I could not possibly have known about were generational curses over my family, that one in particular took a while.

Please do not be offended about my statement about deliverance ministries/ministers. I trust and hope there are sincere men out there who have a heart to see people set free, but I just don't see how those who may travel from town to town doing these meetings in a few hours and not really know anything about the people. Making a disciple like Jesus did, takes time, teaching, and building a bond and relationship with others.

Great topic though Travis, I appreciate your and Davids input. God is faithful.






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David Fella

 2014/11/14 18:07Profile
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Joined: 2006/5/11
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 Re:

It was nice to be reminded of those verses in James, thanks for posting them David.

It sounds like you had a very sure footing in your early years as a believer. It was really nice to read of your story... it's a pity that more churches aren't like this. People can miss out by not going to a house group.



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David Keel

 2014/11/15 5:25Profile
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Joined: 2009/1/21
Posts: 1564
Locport, Illinois

 Re:

Hey guys i was reading your guys conversation and i don't know if you all read of my struggles, but from what i know with my problems i think i struggle in my flesh a lot with my sin, but many of my other struggles i truly believe and know our demonic oppression all the evil thoughts and physical oppression I go through can't be explained as normal struggles. For me this has been very tormenting the last seven or eight years of this struggles. I have to fast a lot just because if i don't it seems like the demonic attacks get worse. Can you guys please pray for me.


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John Beechy

 2014/12/9 23:56Profile
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Joined: 2006/5/11
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 Re:

Yes John, I'll pray for you, Bless you buddy,


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David Keel

 2014/12/10 11:07Profile
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 Re:

Yes brother I too will pray that the Lord give you wisdom and discernment from above.


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David Fella

 2014/12/10 11:50Profile





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