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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "pastoress"???

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dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

The Bible is a bit of a problem, is it not? There is no clear command for women to preach. There is, to some, a seemingly iffy prohibition or limitation that is, to others, clear and not iffy at all.

Whatever we do, let us please take the Word for what it is and not filter it through our cultural morals. Again, I ask this humbly and with deference to all.

I do take exception to the notion that man is the head of woman. I'm no woman's head but my wife and, unless she marries in adulthood, my daughter. If I am any other woman's head, there are a lot of headless women running around that I dont know who they are or how I am to assume their headship. I am certainly content to stay where I am called. :) I am not in the market for more.


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Tim

 2014/10/29 13:00Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________

I do take exception to the notion that man is the head of woman. I'm no woman's head but my wife and, unless she marries in adulthood, my daughter. If I am any other woman's head, there are a lot of headless women running around that I dont know who they are or how I am to assume their headship. I am certainly content to stay where I am called. :) I am not in the market for more.
______________________________________________________________

Is it ok to laugh? This made me chuckle!


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Sandra Miller

 2014/10/30 18:19Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Ginny, I hoped somebody would. :)


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Tim

 2014/10/30 18:29Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Something to consider....

I see in this discussion an issue of prophesying vs teaching as it pertains to females. Many as saying a female may prophesy but not teach.

My question is - and you may not consider it an issue as it pertains to prophesying - how do you reconcile this prohibition with 1Peter 4:11:

NASB: Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

KJV: If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

I have checked other translations including Strongs and the word man is translated 'anyone'.

In a world run amok with relativism I find that unless one can speak with authority - based on the WORD of God - you have nothing to say.

Opps! am I teaching?...sorry.


SIGH.

BTW, I personally find it unsettling in my spirit to see a female lead a church with other capable men present.


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Sandra Miller

 2014/10/30 18:31Profile
dolfan
Member



Joined: 2011/8/23
Posts: 1727
Tennessee, but my home's in Alabama

 Re:

Is the setting there necessarily in assembly? I am unsure. The word "oracles" means "brief utterances". I do not think teaching is the direct reference, but I don't know for sure.


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Tim

 2014/10/30 21:14Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re:

I so want to stay out of this discussion!

When I read some of the responses I see my legalistic self in a dusty old mirror, with phrases like, "yep, says right here in the Word of God..."

Yes. It is all in there, and probably most of us have not only read but studied it. The argument is not with the word of God, but as we get older and see things through the eyes of many seasons, there are other considerations. Sometimes, it takes a woman's preaching to communicate what a man for some reason cannot. Just as men will be able to communicate things a woman cannot!

But if we listen for God graciously, we will hear not only from genuinely gifted women but from children as well. Humble hearts will get all kinds of treasure that slides over the heads of the arrogant and legalistic.

Joyce Meyer, one of those gifted women preachers (who operates under the covering of her Godly husband) told a story once about having lunch with some noted male ministry personalities. The subject of pornography came up, and she noticed after a couple minutes that she was on her own tear against the sin- the others were essentially silent. At the time she was a little miffed at the lack of support, but found out later that a couple of these guys had their own porno addictions. They didn't preach on it, because they were still enslaved in that area.

Enter a woman preacher who has a very public testimony of the sexual abuse she endured when she was younger. When she teaches on pornography, she speaks from a fiery cauldron that burned her own soul. It is powerful stuff, and the preaching reaches people who need to hear it. I cannot say that her message and ministry are not rooted in a call from God!

Granted, she is not a pastor per se, but we should guard our hearts against any attitudes that identify more with the Pharisees than the disciples. We do know what Jesus had to say to those guys!


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Tom Cameron

 2014/10/30 23:03Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Everyone here should by now know my sand on women preachers. I believe,
1. Women can have all gifts of spirit.
2. Women can use the teaching gifts for Children in Sunday school or their own home. Which is a great ministry very much needed in Church.
3. Women can use prophesy gift in Church. Prophesy is done to encourage and warn, but not to teach. Teaching is what Jesus did in Sermon on the mount where people realized the authority with which he spoke.
4. Women cannot take any authority over men in Church, it is both scriptural and also logical. If women was given authority over Church which includes even her own husband then how can she submit to him at home? That is one reason why God has not given this authority.

I want to share an experience that I had yesterday in my Church thursday prayer meet. Usually either our elder or I share God's word each week after payer time. Only the core Church members attend such meeting. Yesterday was my elders time to share the word, usually I will speak after he speaks. Yesterday I was not able to leave office on time and also got struck in trafic. I came to the meeting at the end of main message. I did not stand to speak as usual becaue I cannot get the entire spirit of main message.

But to my surprise a very young sister who is unmarried got up and shared. She spoke about a vision that she saw in her dream in which God showed her that her sins are burried deep in a well but she is always turning towards them and interested in looking into it. She then repented from her state. Normally I do not believe in dreams but in this case her dream was in line with scripture and also lead her to repentance. Hence we all believed that it was a true vision and it greatly encouraged me.

I then realized that God purposely delayed me for the meeting so that there will be a chance given to this girl to speak. Else I would have taken rest of the meeting time!


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Sreeram

 2014/10/31 2:41Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

Women speaking with authority...have you considered:

1Corinthians 11:10:

KJV: For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels. KJV

NASB: Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

Notice the word power, authority. And under what situation is this essential? And what is this symbol and who is her head? Interesting questions that need to be addressed.

As I understand the WORD there are plenty of opportunities for women to minister but it is not in church leadership. Over 50% of the world's population consists of females and there is where we need to share, to teach, to preach (if you will), lead. And sometimes males listen in as well - this is important to make sure we are on the right tract doctrinally and Biblically..

Since we are called to share, to prophesy it is very important we are Bible Scholars as well. Too many males consider this is a threat if a female knows the scripture better then they. I became aware of this when I was told to limit my study because "you will know more then the preacher"!!!! I was stunned..In no way was I competing - I was studying for my own personal benefit. Then I learned that in some minds that knowledge = power.

Bible knowledge will give him/her tools to discern better what is being said. And if a male says something off the wall, I have learned to let it be - males do not like for a woman to disagree with them. If it is a male his credibility, authority has been seriously damaged in my opinion. Somehow they sense that and then I am in trouble, again. SIGH

I suspect this entire issue at its core is more about power, control then serving people. Be it females who aggressively run over men or men who want to silence women because they know the WORD better then they or whatever reason. Scripture tells us that whatsoever thy hand findeth to do to do it with all thy might.. Sounds like servanthood to me and what we are called to be.

Personally, I appreciate males - God gave me a husband and four sons, 8 grandsons, a brother to love. They have insights that I value highly. I love to run my ideas, insights by them to see what they say. Usually what I learn and speak of has been sifted through this process. Love their insight. Women need men and men need women - we should not be involved in a power struggle - power struggles stink. We need to empower each other to fulfill the mission God has called them to do.

My testimony and opinion...:-)


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Sandra Miller

 2014/10/31 11:53Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

deleted duplicate

 2014/10/31 16:51Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1522
Germany NRW

 Re:

1.Cor 14
34 Let your[d] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church.

36 Or did the word of God come originally from you? Or was it you only that it reached? 37 If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things which I write to you are the commandments of the Lord. 38 But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant.[e]

Interesting to see how people go outside of scripture to explain away and twist clear teaching because they do not like it.

I would like to highlight verse 38.
But if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. Paul adds an almost identical statement at the end of his teaching about head covering in 1.Cor 11

16 But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.

I am only quoting scripture...

 2014/10/31 16:51Profile





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