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Sreeram

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John

It's fun giving our opinions on how to work with the opinions of others...!

I was interested in the Jewish custom of the Bar Mitzvah, how at age 13 a boy departs his childhood and becomes a man. The implication here is that at age 13 he is old enough to be able to understand the truth and be accountable to it. He, in moral matters and in regard to God is a responsible adult. (Good grief, when I think of what I was like at 13!)

But further, there seems to be another implication that good and true doctrine should make sense to this young man. Doctrinal concepts beyond his basic thinking would be non-essential, and he would not be under obligation to them in the same way he would to essential doctrines.

I am thus skeptical of doctrine built on individual proof-texting, and more comfortable with doctrine that has multiple clear references from the Scripture. My inner 13 year old needs moral clarity.

Sometimes it is amazing to see children show an easy understanding of how sin and morality work against each other. It is also alarming to see some of them display a love for sin.

And who was it that said, "Unless you become as little children..."?

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Tom Cameron

From initial post...

"It is actually helping me to prove or disprove things by using scripture and not just a few words out of the bible. By knowing scripture but also by analyzing preachers when they are correctly interpreting something and when they are seducing the scripture."


As one subjects oneself to the Scriptures and allows the Scriptures to comment on the Scriptures, one will recognize why men choose to ignore what the Word of God is trying to impart to the individual. Those who fear that one will lose fellowship with those who seek to maintain the traditions of men, will always choose to "seduce the scriptures."

However, those who choose the ancient path, who seek to grow in understanding, will find a banquet placed before them. They will be trained to distinguish between light and darkness.


Jesus always asked questions. And that forces the individual to choose between Him or the traditions of men. Look to the example below...

Luk 20:1
Now it happened on one of those days, as He taught the people in the temple and preached the gospel, that the chief priests and the scribes, together with the elders, confronted Him

Luk 20:2
and spoke to Him, saying, “Tell us, by what authority are You doing these things? Or who is he who gave You this authority?”

Luk 20:3
But He answered and said to them, “I also will ask you one thing, and answer Me:

Luk 20:4
“The baptism of John—was it from heaven or from men?”

Luk 20:5
And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ He will say, ‘Why thenfn did you not believe him?’

Luk 20:6
“But if we say, ‘From men,’ all the people will stone us, for they are persuaded that John was a prophet.”

Luk 20:7
So they answered that they did not know where it was from.

Luk 20:8
And Jesus said to them, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I do these things.”



Will you allow the Word of God to show you the intents of your own heart and repent for what is not righteous, or will you choose the traditions of men which have no power to save? Those who choose the traditions of men will grow to dislike those who answer to the Word of God.

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Jeff Marshalek

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John

Good and needful topic here I think. I'll try to be brief in sharing my experience regarding this subject. When I first came to Christ I immediately had a hunger to read the Word on my own without any helps, so I began doing that. At the same time, I began learning essential doctrine from certain kinds of study helps such as sermons, a study Bible and other books. In those early days I was introduced to both the Oneness view of the Godhead and the Trinity and was confused at first, not knowing for sure which view was correct. After seriously praying about it and comparing both views with Scripture the Trinity seemed much more clearly taught than the Oneness view. I think that certain study helps which pointed out the specific relevant scriptures helped me in deciding which view was correct. I think that if I had not had those study aids it may have taken longer for me to decide on that doctrine as it may have taken me longer to find those relevant scriptures just from reading the Word on my own. So I believe one very important use for the gift of teaching in the Church is to help us learn essential truth as quickly as possible and to help us get grounded in those truths. That is not to say we absolutely need someone (other than the Holy Spirit and the Word) to teach us essential doctrine; but simply to say many times the Lord uses the gift of teaching to help teach us those truths quicker.

While learning the essentials I was also introduced to different non-essential doctrines such as on the gifts of the Spirit, Calvinism vs. Arminianism, end-times, etc. When it came to those kinds of doctrines, at first I accepted certain views sort of unreservedly due to being influenced by certain writings of certain preachers which leaned toward those views. But then I was introduced to other views which challenged my views and I found myself having to prayerfully search the Scriptures more and I ended up changing some of my views on account of that. So even when it came to non-essential doctrines I found it helpful to see what the different views were and what scriptures were used to support each particular view. I tried to prayerfully compare each view with Scripture and to arrive at the most biblical view myself.

So while I agree that we need to be careful not to rely too heavily on someone else's interpretations of Scripture, I also see the ministry of teaching clearly taught in the Word as being very important. The Lord uses the gift of teaching in His Church to help instruct us in both essential and non-essential doctrine.

I'm reminded of a biblical principle taught in the example of the Bereans as seen in Acts 17:10-12. We're told there that upon hearing Paul for the first time the Bereans "received the word with all readiness". That shows they had a teachable spirit. But also it goes on to say that they "searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so." They didn't just blindly accept even the apostle Paul's teaching. So the principle is that first of all, we must have a teachable spirit. We must humbly acknowledge and accept the fact that God has supplied His Church with gifted teachers to help us grow in our understanding of His Word. But at the same time we must search the Scriptures for ourselves and be ready to test every teaching we hear to see if it lines up with the Word. If it clearly lines up with the Word we must humbly and gladly receive it as coming from God Himself. And if on the other hand we find it doesn't line up with the Word we must be quick to chuck that teaching into the nearest trash can and move on.

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Oracio

Brothers!!

This is a most excellent topic and by Gods grace led of the Holy Spirit.

I have some thoughts and experiences I would like to share as Brother John requested however I am off to church.

I bear witness with everyone's input, thoughts, and experiences and I am putting myself on the line so I will follow through by sharing what my experiences have been as related to this very subject.

So I will return, Lord willing.

One statement I would like to make on this thread is that even though John put the topic out there it is God who inspired him to do so.

It is a topic that needs to be discussed as for me I am greatly inspired and my spirit is up lifted by such meaningful sharing with one another in UNITY!!!!

So in Jesus name, the train will not get derailed before I return. Just being honest brothers for I long to partake of discussions where the Holy Spirit is leading us together being of one mind, one heart, and one accord.

This is such a great Upper Room discussion, PTL.
Blessings,
Brother Dave

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David Fella