| Poster | Thread |
| | Oracio | | you're right, i'm wrong, you win.
i'm done. |
|  2014/10/17 14:24 | |
| | Re: | | Oracio,
Is it possible to dialogue without starting some kind of disagreement. It used to be called " hijacking a thread." How about some insightful points about the post rather than try and pit people against each other. It seemed like you did that pretty well enough on the thread about denominations. This thread is about an ancient struggle, battle if you like. I myself will just leave the OP as the piece that it is. Perhaps you can just argue with yourself? And they say I have an agenda? :) Sheesh...........bro Frank |
| | 2014/10/17 14:39 | | twayneb
Member
Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri
| | Re: | | Position in the Kingdom of God is not possible outside of anointing. In Eph. 4, we find that each man is anointed or graced with the power of God to supply as God has designed. The problem comes when carnal man begins to view position in the Kingdom in a carnal way. God does not anoint men for the purpose of filling position, but for the purpose of growing His body.
_________________
Travis
|
| | 2014/10/17 16:02 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Hi bro Travis, I think you said it just about as well as it could be said. I think your key words were " position in the Kingdom of God," or one could have said position in the Body of Christ. Indeed, it is about growing and edifying the Body and not growing men's kingdoms...........bro Frank |
| | 2014/10/17 17:50 | | Oracio
Member
Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA
| | Re: | | Frank, it was your posts in this thread that influenced Neil to reply the way he did, because the underlying message behind them is the same. It is a message that opposes all organized or established churches and pastors of those churches and says they all have a "spirit of Saul". Again, I have not seen this type of harsh attack against the house church movement here.
Regarding hijacking a thread, simply because someone comes on a thread and disagrees or challenges a post does not mean they are hijacking it. This is a forum that is open to discussion even if there is disagreement.
_________________
Oracio
|
| | 2014/10/17 17:51 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Okay brother, I am not prepared to argue with you. Perhaps you can tell us where in the OP that " it opposes all organized or established pastors of those churches and says they all have a spirit of Saul." You can either quote and prove your words to be true, or this is simply an accusation with no ground. I await your quote from the OP.......bro Frank |
| | 2014/10/17 18:05 | | InTheLight
Member
Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA
| | Re: | | Quote:
One of the differences between Jesus and us is that HE was in no need of mercy. You and I on the other hand "at one time were foolish, disobedient, living in malice and envy, deceived and being deceived, hating and being hated of one another....".
With this in mind, all of our criticism of "fallen" or "disobedient" men needs to be done in the light of the same mercy and kindness, that appeared to us when the love of God for mankind appeared.
This is why we are to demonstrate " true meekness towards all men" - even the "deceived" and "disobedient".
Jesus could judge the Pharisees in a way the none of the rest of us can. He was never like them. But we were!
I was struck by this comment and would like to add some thoughts from John Newton to expand upon it and bring balance;
"The Christian, especially he who is advanced and established in the life of faith, has a fervent zeal for God, for the honor of His name, His law, and His Gospel. The honest warmth which he feels, when such a law is broken, when such a Gospel is despised, and when the great and glorious name of the Lord his God is profaned; would, by the occasion of his infirmities, often degenerate into anger or contempt, towards those who oppose themselves, if he was under the influence of zeal alone. But his zeal is blended with benevolence and humility; it is softened by a consciousness of his own frailty and fallibility. He is aware that his knowledge is very limited in itself, and very faint in its efficacy; that his attainments are weak and few, compared with his deficiencies; that his gratitude is very disproportionate to his obligations, and his obedience unspeakably short of conformity to his prescribed rule; that he has nothing but what he has received, and has received nothing—but what, in a greater or less degree, he has misapplied and misimproved. He is therefore a debtor to the mercy of God, and lives upon his multiplied forgiveness.
He makes the gracious conduct of the Lord towards himself, a pattern for his own conduct towards his fellow-creatures. He cannot boast, nor is he forward to censure. He considers himself, lest he also be tempted (Galatians 6:1); and thus he learns tenderness and compassion to others, and to bear patiently with those mistakes, prejudices, and errors in them, which once belonged to his own character; and from which, as yet, he is but imperfectly freed. But then, the same considerations, which inspire him with meekness and gentleness, towards those who oppose the truth, strengthen his regard for the truth itself, and his conviction of its importance. For the sake of peace, which he loves and cultivates, he accommodates himself, as far as he lawfully can—to the weakness and misapprehensions of those who mean well; though he is thereby exposed to the censure of bigots of all parties, who deem him flexible and wavering, like a reed shaken with the wind.
But there are other points, nearly connected with the honor of God, and essential to the life of faith, which are the foundations of his hope, and the sources of his joy. For his firm attachment to these, he is content to be treated as a bigot himself. For here, he is immovable as an iron pillar, nor can either the fear, or the favor of man—prevail on him to give place, no not for an hour! (Galatians 2:5). Here his judgment is fixed; and he expresses it, in simple and unequivocal language, so as not to leave, either friends or enemies, in suspense, concerning the side which he has chosen, or the cause which is nearest to his heart.
The minister who possesses a candor, thus enlightened, and thus qualified, will neither degrade himself to be the instrument, nor aspire to the head, of a party. He will not servilely tread in the paths prescribed him by men, however respectable. He will not multiply contentions, in defense, either of the shibboleths of others, or of any hobby-horse of his own, under the pretense that he is pleading for the cause of God, and truth. His attention will not be restrained to the interest of any detached denomination of Christians—but extended to all who love the Lord Jesus Christ, in sincerity."
_________________
Ron Halverson
|
| | 2014/10/17 20:01 | Profile | Oracio
Member
Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA
| | Re: | | Quote:
Okay brother, I am not prepared to argue with you. Perhaps you can tell us where in the OP that " it opposes all organized or established pastors of those churches and says they all have a spirit of Saul." You can either quote and prove your words to be true, or this is simply an accusation with no ground. I await your quote from the OP.......bro Frank
Bro, I will also ask you, do you agree with Neil's post about all traditional church pastors being idols that everyone in traditional churches worship(like a pope), or that all Protestant organized churches are Rome-lite? Again, that post was an affirmation of your posts on this thread; your posts were not as blatant but the implication still seemed clear as has been the case in discussing this topic of church structure.
_________________
Oracio
|
| | 2014/10/17 22:35 | Profile |
| | Re: | | So no quote from me Oracio, just an accusation , that about sums it up. I have written extensively for the last 7 years and you are free to look Oracio, it is all online, your accusations are simply unfounded. I have been sharing simple, overarching truth and have been deliberately non specific because it is not up to me what you do with truth. If I have spoken something that is not true, then let us have a quote. If you unable to quote anything, then you are simply an accuser Oracio. We are straightly told not to bear false witness against our neighbors...........bro Frank |
| | 2014/10/17 23:39 | | Oracio
Member
Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA
| | Re: | | Frank, I am not deliberately falsely accusing you of anything here. As one who considered himself part of the house church movement for some time I'm very familiar with the "Saul spirit", "ruler over the people", argument. Neil is very familiar with that argument and uses it as well and that's why he posted what he posted as an affirmation to your OP and other post. There have been others on this forum who are no longer here who often would also use that same argument on this forum. You've made it clear that you oppose the current "institutional church system" as a dead system in which God is not trying to do a big move anymore in these last days. You've made it clear that you believe God is calling His remnant to come out of the "established church system". You've discussed this with brother Greg and the two of you have disagreed on it. I don't think it should be that necessary for me to have to go back and pull all those past quotes? I don't think you're being that honest here by saying I'm falsely accusing you, as if I have no reason for posting what I posted concerning your views on this issue of church structure.
_________________
Oracio
|
| | 2014/10/18 0:35 | Profile |
|
