It is interesting to note that Saul and all of Israel were afraid of the giant, Goliath. He was allowed to stand, established in the battle-field , unchallenged. This was not the first time the Israelites were afraid of giants. When the spies were sent in to spy out the land by Moses, the report of ten out of the twelve spies was one of fear, fear of the giants. What is the difference between those who are powerless over giants and those who would run towards them? In Saul and David's case, we see that one had the position and the other had the anointing. What would you have in this life brothers and sisters? Now the one with the position is initially pleased with the outcome of the fight between David and Goliath.

Was he pleased because the arrogant mouth of the enemy who blasphemed our God was shut? Or was he pleased that his own self-serving purposes had been achieved? Now we see that one has a distressing spirit. Saul had already proved that he was a law unto himself and now had to walk this world himself, without God. Yet, when he heard the people praising David above him, pride and envy and hatred began to build in his heart. When David began to worship God and come into His presence, it merely highlighted to Saul what he did not have and with spear in hand, he said in his heart " I will pin David to the wall!” ‘Now Saul was afraid of David because the Lord was with him but had departed from Saul.” (1 Sam 18:12)

There is a difference between the religious man and the man of God. One has position and the other has anointing. What would you have in this life brothers and sisters? These two entities have existed side by side since Cain and Abel. One has an acceptable sacrifice, a broken and a contrite heart, the other has his works. The fire of God falls on one and not the other. Whether it is Cain and Abel, or Saul and David or Jesus and the Pharisees or the martyrs and the Catholic church, there is one thing for sure in these cases, one had the position in this life and the other had the anointing. What would you have in this life brothers and sisters? This state of affairs has and will exist until the Lord returns.

The one with the position will persecute the one with the anointing. In fact, we are moving into times where we will see this " Saul spirit," arise to unseen heights. And directly proportional to the anointing is the level of the persecution. Yet be of good cheer brothers and sisters, for "The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all. (Psalm 34:17-19)

Let's not forget that David (the anointed) showed great respect towards a fallen leader because he was still "the Lord's anointed."

I think this is a fact sadly overlooked by many. May the Lord give us the same heart David had towards the "Sauls" we encounter. David could see both the true condition of the fallen leader and not lose sight that God Himself had put him in the position he was in.

makrothumia

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Alan and Dina Martin

God indeed strives long and hard with the fallen leaders, even although He warned against having one in the first place. Yet the people would be ruled by a man so they could just be like other nations. And of course this led to the defeat of the people. And in the end, the leader was godless and died on the battlefield. Jesus, on the other hand, was unabashed when it came to His criticisms of the Pharisess and held His harshest words for them, not the Romans. Even when He made a whip and drove the money changers out of the Temple, the religious leaders were not concerned at what they had turned the house of God into, but more concerned about their authority being challenged. Thier pride in their leadership had blinded them to the Word and the will of God.............bro Frankn

Dear Frank,

One of the differences between Jesus and us is that HE was in no need of mercy. You and I on the other hand "at one time were foolish, disobedient, living in malice and envy, deceived and being deceived, hating and being hated of one another....".

With this in mind, all of our criticism of "fallen" or "disobedient" men needs to be done in the light of the same mercy and kindness, that appeared to us when the love of God for mankind appeared.

This is why we are to demonstrate " true meekness towards all men" - even the "deceived" and "disobedient".

Jesus could judge the Pharisees in a way the none of the rest of us can. He was never like them. But we were!

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Alan and Dina Martin

HI bro, Did Paul talk about false leaders having come down from Jerusalem to spy out their liberty? Just wondering brother, what has any of this to do with the OP? Do you see something specific in that post that you object to? Perhaps you disagree with the premise of the post or some other part of it. I would be glad to answer any question about what I actually wrote. If not, and you want to talk about leadership, perhaps you could write a post about that specifically because that is not what my post addresses......bro Frank

this...

I agree that the anointing of the Holy Spirit is much more important than any position in a church. My concern would be with Christians thinking one must absolutely choose between one or other. Let's also remember that David himself went on to have a "position" as king of Israel which was from the Lord Himself. Many anointed saints throughout church history have had "positions" of leadership from the Lord, including for example martyrs like Polycarp of Smyrna who was discipled under John the apostle. One could argue that the roles mentioned in Ephesians 4:11(apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers) as well as deacons are "positions" of servant/leadership in the Church. Simply because one has a position of leadership or authority in a church does not mean they operate with a "spirit of Saul" as opposed to operating with the heart of David.

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Oracio

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Oracio

Neil, you don't see anyone who's part of a traditional church here saying the house church or "out of church" movement is completely apostate or heretical or completely watered down or what not.

Even though I disagree with the stance of "no strong leadership" prevalent within the house church movement I don't consider that to be cause for harsh opposition toward that movement as a whole or toward that way of thinking regarding church practice.

But I don't think it's fair for you to come on here and say that all pastors within traditional churches are idols that are worshipped or that all traditional Protestant churches are "rome-lite", etc. etc.

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Oracio