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 Re:

Oh Bless God!!

That was a good word, a good post!

love, Neil

 2005/4/23 22:02
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re: Robert W

Quote:
Jehovah's Witnesses have translated a corrupt Bible version called the New World Translation.



I am quite familiar with the JW's and their teachings. I am also familiar with their version of the scriptures. When debating with them always establish YOUR sources before you begin discussions. For me, I lay aside my KJV and pull out my Interlinear Bible.

Quote:
Was that sentence blasphemy? Or was it the truth?



Was it Truth as in "inspired by the Holy Ghost" or truth as in "accurate based upon the known facts" in the case? Your words are not to be juxtaposed as Truth over against blasphemy as the canon of scripture is closed and the revelation of eternal Truth is complete.

Quote:
Try not to let your emotions rule your posting.



I do. I try to employ wisdom.


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/4/23 22:13Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Thanks

Thanks Karl,

Whew... you guys are taxing this poor moderator dude ([i]poor guy[/i]) ;-) Of course I am trying to lighten things up here a bit.

In the other recent rant of want of expression was just trying to get some balance brought in here. It's not an either/or construct and not that it matters all that much in opinion, but some of the same things Karl is stating here were attempted there. Our newest member here, RecievedText and a warm welcome to you [i]again[/i] brother, is not out of line in what he brought forth originally, this is a topic ready on our lips because of recent developments. Had spoken with him a bit earlier and he was very cordial, being somewhat unfamiliar with the site and very appreciative of his understanding in what the attempts around here are.

So to allude back to the 'plea' shall we not be so quick to make presumptions and also not so quick to be 'offended' all these things are not to sidestep anyone or accuse anyone, goodness it is toward the [i]whole[/i].

Agree with both Chanin and even with Krispy and RT. There must be a better way of going about these things and maybe it is just in reading into to much that is said or misunderstanding the context or motives behind it all. Surely some of it could be couched in different language at times but shouldn't it all be taken into consideration?

I know I am just as guilty of offering up a problem without a proposed solution and the sentiment is not towards doing away with anything because it is uncomfortable nor is it necessary to be blasting caps towards those that may be caught up in it. This particular issue is one where I cannot think of one disagreement that the 'system' is corrupt and frankly in many ways with more things being brought to consider even worse than we might have come to know. These things need not be dismissed or relegated to some kind of 'off limits' approach. There are terrible things being done in the name of our Lord and they are not limited to just the RCC, again the danger is in going to extremes, 'either/or', as soon as one brings this up the sense is to stop talking about it, an imaginary line is drawn in the sand and it feeds into the idea of taking 'sides', totally unnecessary. Same goes for the opposite, that by keeping it 'alive', it is open season to just beat the thing into the ground. Surely that in itself is a bit over the top as an example.

Some of the pronouncements we could certainly do without, don't think that is an area we have any business meddling in and there is a need for some tact here, as Chanin well brought up, what of those who are caught up in these things?

There are many other issues we have had strong discussions about here, the PDL, WOF, BH and it can get the best of us, while we lose sight of the people being affected.

I don't have a perfect answer here for any of this, just caution and being aware of others, a bit to chew on and pray about.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/4/23 22:45Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

ReceivedText wrote:
Chanin,

The Roman Catholic Church is NOT a denomination of true Christianity. It is a cult. The reason we expose the RCC is because we LOVE precious Roman Catholics and want to lead them to Christ. You cannot agree with a lie and expose it at the same time.



In that case, neither is protestantism. Consider Luther's reaction to the Anabaptist, and not to mention his antisemitism. What about Calvinist persecution of the Arminians. Now, the whole faith movement, prosperity, third wave, holiness, grace... When are we going to figure out, that every banner is corrupt, and that every banner is flown over a remnant minority within. I believe that this is Channin's point.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2005/4/24 0:34Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re: Thanks

Quote:
There must be a better way of going about these things and maybe it is just in reading into to much that is said or misunderstanding the context or motives behind it all. Surely some of it could be couched in different language at times but shouldn't it all be taken into consideration?

I don't have a perfect answer here for any of this, just caution and being aware of others, a bit to chew on and pray about.



Good Word Mike. I've been posting very little lately, but reading much. Personally, I like exposure. I like things upfront and honest so I can weigh things out and take it to the Word of God........or just put it on a shelf for later use/ponderings. The problem as you said is that some people do this in such a way that some become offended (rightly or wrongly). I am offended with much in the RC Church (was myself baptized as an infant and partook of first communion in the RC Church), but in the same breath, personally know and love people in this organization. I'm not shy about my views on their practices and the Lord has been good to provide plenty of opportunities to share the Word of God with a Catholic neighbor who struggles much in her understanding of the Lord.

As much as I am grieved with RC doctine and practice, I was a bit taken aback by David Ravenhill's words on the Pope. I think what some may see (rightly or wrongly) is that there "seems" to be an element of glee in knowing the Pope is burning in hell........or that he is now living a nightmare. That bothers me. That is the type of stuff which should not be occurring, if that was the intent/heart of that writing. Did the Pope lead many, many astray? Absolutely. However, he was a human being and it is grieving to think he may be spending an eternity in torment. I say "may" because I personally will not be so presumptuous to believe and teach that anyone is unredeemable who believes that Christ is the Saviour of mankind, but teaches false doctrine.

Truth be told, the Catholic Church does not hold the market on false doctrine. There is plenty of false doctrine going around these days in the protestant churches. It is even believed by some in the election/predestination camp (of which I belong), that freewill proponents are lost in their sins because they believe in a "works salvation"----they have to "do" something to be saved----they have to say "yes", which to some Calvinists is a work. I do not believe this. Sigh......I'm just not that smart. I will leave that final decision of destination up to God.

What I think we should do is preach the truth IN LOVE and let the chips fall where they may. The Word of God doesn't say we are only to preach the Word when it's convenient, when it "seems" like the right time----it says to preach the Word IN SEASON and OUT of season. Unless I misunderstand that, it means to preach the truth at ALL times. So, in a VERY long-winded way I am agreeing with Mike. Doctrine/practices DO need to be discussed, but IMHO determining as fact someone's lack of salvation who professes Christ, that we should not do.

I think as believers we need to remember this important truth: believers (yes, even mature ones) get wounded too by other believers. I think we are seeing this with some of the posters who have voiced they are leaving or "standing back" for awhile. Sometimes those who are more evangelistically minded/gifted lose focus on the importance of the portion of the Body of Christ that is "Body focused"----because their main focus is on the lost. We should respect and value ALL our brothers and sisters and realize that God has not called us to be cookie cutter believers. We are all unique and gifted sometimes very differently. Sometimes it seems so differently that we seem to be on opposite planes, but in reality that is not so. Each of us was formed and is being formed as God sees fit----for the benefit of HIS purposes. I think we lose sight of that sometimes. At least I know I do when I get frustrated or irritated at another's walk.

The understanding of the value of each and every member of the Body is important. We may not like someone's demeanor/personality or their ministry "bent", but that's where we need to "get over ourselves" and we need to quit looking into heart motives of someone and just address their words, if those words are sinful/unbiblical. It's much more productive and much less destructive to the Body.

I think it was either Oswald Chambers or Tozer (can't remember cause I've read so much lately).......that certain types of people who rub us the wrong way are placed in our lives for a reason-----the reason is GROWTH and GRACE. It's easy to like someone who is nice and pleasant. It is a real struggle to get along with others and have grace towards those who are brash, abupt, no holes barred, etc. I am living this right now and it's NOT fun, but I do know that the Lord is using this to purge stuff from me that is not pretty, stuff that would lay hidden if it were not brought to the surface. We each should thank the Lord for every person, believer or unbeliever who rubs us the wrong way and look at it as an occasion to grow in Grace and God's love. He loves us, doesn't He and there's a whole bunch of yuk in most of us? The reason I even bring up the rubbing the wrong way is due to the many offenses I've seen here lately. I dont' really think it is doctrinal discussions as much as personality/ministry bent differences. At least it appears that way to me. Anyways, I love you all and am thankful for each and every one of you----even those who may rub me the wrong way. I have grown here. The one thing that led me and kept me reading the forums is the manner in which things were discussed (upfront AND respectful). The fact that "hard things" were even allowed to be discussed here in depth was refreshing. That is VERY different from most Christian boards. I hope the openness and respectful nature of discussion continues............Blessings in Jesus, Cindy :-)


_________________
Cindy

 2005/4/24 1:44Profile
ReceivedText
Member



Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

 CJaKfOrEsT

Quote:
In that case, neither is protestantism.



So do to wrongs make a right? I am not a Lutheran nor a Calvinist. I am a Bible Believing Christian. What you write does not have anything to do with Rome being the whore of Rev. 17 and an antichrist church.

You are right. We should not desire meaningless labels. But when we recognize an organized institution such as this that embodies blasphemy, the truth must be said. If everyone agreed that Rome was a cult, we wouldn't be having this discussion. Unfortunately the opposite is true today.

You have Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, and Pat Robertson singing the pope's praises calling him a man of God. You can't be pope and be a man of God. You can't preside over blatantly damning heresy (i.e. doctrine that if you believe it disqualifies you for heaven) and be a man of God. Or can you? Was Joseph Smith a man of God? Help me here. Was Brigham Young a man of God?

 2005/4/24 1:47Profile









 whats next?

Quote:
the truth must be said



ok, we did that.

Quote:
Rome being the whore of Rev. 17 and an antichrist church.



ok, we've established that.

Quote:
Billy Graham, Benny Hinn, and Pat Robertson

there have been long tortured threads on these men.

Quote:
You can't be pope and be a man of God.



we've all agreed on this in the past.


now I ask you, whats next?

now that you clambered onto your cyber pulpit and denounced those you've denounced in your 28 hour tenure here, now I ask you, whats next?

How do you propose to love these cult member's, apostates, and various whores of rome into the Kingdom of Heaven?

hmmm?

once you've torn them down, how do you plan in the Holy Ghost to build them up in Jesus?

whats next?

 2005/4/24 2:54
Heavenlyman
Member



Joined: 2005/3/29
Posts: 51
Australia

 Re: whats next?

:-) :-D

To Be United in the name of Jesus Christ who bring peace to us through the Holy Spirit that gives understading to our dim minds.

Be of good cheers my brothers and sister
concern yourself in your own salvation that you may be welcome by our savior as a good and faithful servant of Christ.

 2005/4/24 3:12Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
by Heavenlyman on 2005/4/24 3:12:50
To Be United in the name of Jesus Christ who bring peace to us through the Holy Spirit that gives understading to our dim minds.

Be of good cheers my brothers and sister
concern yourself in your own salvation that you may be welcome by our savior as a good and faithful servant of Christ.



Amen.


_________________
Cindy

 2005/4/24 10:13Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re:

Quote:
Be of good cheers my brothers and sister
concern yourself in your own salvation that you may be welcome by our savior as a good and faithful servant of Christ.



AMEN as well.

as we have said that it is good to expose things and state the truth (which we have done numerous, numerous times) i stil believe that we have got to say "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling".

Peter, seeing him, said to Jesus, "But Lord, what about this man?" 22 Jesus said to him, "If I will that he remain till I come, [b]what is that to you? You follow Me."[/b]

in Christ, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2005/4/24 10:22Profile





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