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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Jesus Movement vs. The Emergent Church by Steve Gallagher

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Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

TMK wrote: "We know what is right and wrong because God instills that in us. We are made in His image. So I think we are able to say what would be right and wrong in the above scenario."

TMK, This is so wrong brother. If that were true there would not be so may 'opinions' as to what was right and wrong. This is where deception starts and has led many once great movements into error and apostasy. We think we have inner light to decide what is right and wrong? Isn't this the first Sin committed in the garden? "You will be like God, knowing good and evil"

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean NOT on your own understanding."

"For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts."

Be careful you don't have a god of your own making and not the God revealed in the bible!


_________________
Dave

 2014/9/2 10:28Profile









 Re:

"We know what is right and wrong because God instills that in us. We are made in His image. So I think we are able to say what would be right and wrong in the above scenario."

exactly. we can discern things. even devils can judge. the more we know God the better we can judge righteous judgement

judgment will be merciless for him who shows no mercy

 2014/9/2 11:47









 Re:

boy doesn't this scripture pierce us all

“But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions.” (1 Timothy 1:5–7, NASB95)

(by the way you could insert "New Testament" in there because they mostly only had the OT back then)

 2014/9/2 11:58
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Heydave--

You said that it is "wrong" that we, especially as Christians, have a sense of what is wrong and what is right.

I am not sure what to make of that statement. People that say this sort of thing usually do so because they are trying to avoid the implications of ascribing horrible things to God.

In other words, the reasoning goes like this: "God is responsible (or sovereign) over everything. God is good. Therefore even seemingly horrible things are really good, because God is behind them.

This is where you and I seem to part ways. If something seems horrible or evil to me, then my position is either 1) God is not behind it or 2) I am mistaken in what I think that God does about it.

In the case of my example of the New Delhi youth, I have two options that preserve God's character 1) believe that God did not purposefully put him there where He knows he will never hear the name of Jesus or 2) believe that if God DID put him there where He knows he will never hear the gospel that God will not toss him into an eternal hell for it.

Your position SEEMS to be (and I may be wrong) is that if God both knowingly places the child there where he will never hear the gospel AND also tosses him into hell for it, then that is right because "God's ways are higher than our ways."

And I say that is daft (kind of like that word) because wrong is wrong.


_________________
Todd

 2014/9/2 12:52Profile









 Re:

and point

3. God wants to send us to him to share the gospel

edit: I believe he would be punished for doing evil: sinning, being convicted by his conscience, and continuing to do it. seriously God is not mocked

““For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says the LORD of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.”” (Malachi 4:1, NASB95)

 2014/9/2 13:03
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

I am certainly not downplaying evangelism. Jesus said he came that we may have abundant life, which certainly includes now.

In other words following Jesus is not just for the next life.

But the sad truth is that not every person will be evangelized.


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Todd

 2014/9/2 14:15Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

TMK,

I absolutely believe that God is sovereign. However I don't believe He puts people like that in a place so they can never find him. I gave you the biblical understanding from Acts 17 that says God puts people where He wants that they might find Him. I believe this is true.

If you want to belive something else that's up to you, but it is your reasonings, not God's word.

Regarding your example, if the youth was seeking for truth, God is plenty able to arrange for a way for the gospel message to get to him. It might not be traditional evangelism (however in India there is plenty of Christian witness), it could be through any multitude of ways. God is not impotent as you suggest.

My big disagreement with your statements is that you exalt your understanding of what is right, fair and just over what God has declared in His word. That is that there is salvation in no other but the name and person of Jesus Christ.


_________________
Dave

 2014/9/2 16:09Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

If God saves someone who has never heard the gospel it is because of what Jesus did on the cross so I certainly believe there is no other name by which men must be saved.

All I am really trying to say is that we really don't know what God will do in every situation.

The question I suppose is whether circumstances alter cases.


_________________
Todd

 2014/9/2 19:24Profile
mattf12486
Member



Joined: 2012/9/3
Posts: 41


 Re:

If the Bible is truly the word of God, which I'm assuming we all believe, than to make a case for a person being saved who has never placed faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is impossible using the Bible.

Some seem to think God is unjust if He gives man what he deserves. The wages of sin is death. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. God owes none of his creatures anything. Grace is unmerited favor.


TMK, do you think God was unjust in flooding the entire known world and saving only 8? What about choosing Abraham and through him the children of Israel before the coming of Jesus Christ? All the other nations were excluded from the covenant.

 2014/9/2 21:10Profile





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