Poster | Thread |
| Re: | | I read somewhere that missionaries are encouraged to learn about the myths of animistic/other cultures to use it in evangelism because many have stories that have concurrent truths with the true history. (since all came from the three sons of Noah and dispersed even more after Babel, there is residual truth) and in using some truth from their own oral traditions it connects them with the God of all our ancestors way back (which worked better in evangelism that striking down everything about their myths completely), both Noah and Adam, whichever their myths refer to.
if anyone is interested in learning about different cultures, check out these short audios:
http://biblefacts.org/index.php?cat=creation
in the Post Flood section.
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| 2014/9/1 20:11 | | mattf12486 Member

Joined: 2012/9/3 Posts: 41
| Re: | | Question: "What happens to those who have never heard about Jesus?"
Answer: All people are accountable to God whether or not they have “heard about Him.” The Bible tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11). The problem is that the human race is sinful; we all reject this knowledge of God and rebel against Him (Romans 1:21-23). If it were not for God's grace, we would be given over to the sinful desires of our hearts, allowing us to discover how useless and miserable life is apart from Him. He does this for those who continually reject Him (Romans 1:24-32).
In reality, it is not that some people have not heard about God. Rather, the problem is that they have rejected what they have heard and what is readily seen in nature. Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle—everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.
The problem is “there is no one who understands, no one who seeks God” (Romans 3:11). People reject the knowledge of God that is present in nature and in their own hearts, and instead decide to worship a “god” of their own creation. It is foolish to debate the fairness of God sending someone to hell who never had the opportunity to hear the gospel of Christ. People are responsible to God for what God has already revealed to them. The Bible says that people reject this knowledge, and therefore God is just in condemning them to hell.
Instead of debating the fate of those who have never heard, we, as Christians, should be doing our best to make sure they do hear. We are called to spread the gospel throughout the nations (Matthew 28:19-20; Acts 1:8). We know people reject the knowledge of God revealed in nature, and that must motivate us to proclaim the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. Only by accepting God’s grace through the Lord Jesus Christ can people be saved from their sins and rescued from an eternity apart from God.
If we assume that those who never hear the gospel are granted mercy from God, we will run into a terrible problem. If people who never hear the gospel are saved, it is logical that we should make sure no one ever hears the gospel. The worst thing we could do would be to share the gospel with a person and have him or her reject it. If that were to happen, he or she would be condemned. People who do not hear the gospel must be condemned, or else there is no motivation for evangelism. Why run the risk of people possibly rejecting the gospel and condemning themselves when they were previously saved because they had never heard the gospel?
Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/never-heard.
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| 2014/9/1 20:15 | Profile | brothagary Member

Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | Yea your right matti,the letter to the romans is very clear and half the reason Paul wrote it .
He said what the law says is written to those under the law ,that EVERY mouth my be stoped and the whole world become guilty before god ,he said those under law will be judged by the law and those with out law WILL PERISH with out law .Its not about us judging the tribal idolaters as lost and perishing with out law ,Paul clearly says they will perish but the goes on to say even those under the law are guilty condemned by the law in which they thought they would be justfied ,thats why he say all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god ,and that only way to escape is through the justification that comes freely by grace through faith through the redemption that is in Jesus Christ ...
21But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;……
th bible doesnt teach any Whare the a person can be saved by following there conscience,,but as the above Scriptures says it is only by faith through the redemption that we are justfied ,,following our conscience doesnt led to any form of justification,,that teaching is trampling over the blood of the covenant and the righteousness of god imputed through faith ,it completely nullifies the need of the Gospel, if justification come by conscience .It is nullifying the word of god through mens traditions ,,that is, with me being as soft and gentel as i can be, is devilish wisdom that doesnt not come from above but earthly sensual and devilish as James said ,,to teach that a person needs not the blood of redemption or the god of Abraham Isac and Jacob just follow the darkened mind of a pagan race that god has turned over to follow the desires of the flesh and of the mind . All though they new god they did not glorify god so there foolish hearts became darkened professing to be was they became fools ,and changed the glories of an incoruptable god to images made by hands . Paul in his letter to the romans was more then likely trying to combat that type of false Gospel .
Brothers dont take this the wrong way im not angry or being unduly harsh,,but the fundamental Christian teaching is repentance toward the god of Abraham and Issac and Jacob and faith in the Gospel and the name of Christ the name that is above every other name for there is salvations in no other name , there is one way one truth and one life ,it comes only through follow Jesus by faith
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| 2014/9/1 21:51 | Profile | TMK Member

Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| Re: | | Typical "gotquestions" answer. I generally like that website but sometimes it is extremely simplistic.
Why not just say "we do not know how God will deal with those persons who have never heard the gospel?" Isn't that the more honest response? By the way, there is nothing wrong with that position. Some mystery is okay.
The idea that God will send people to hell because He placed them in an area with no realistic access to the gospel is repellant, at least to me. It is so easy for us to make sweeping statements about a vast number of human beings from our advantaged position. There **really are** millions of people who will never have a legitimate chance to respond to the gospel. For us to make a statement that they are damned because they have not believed in a Person they do not even know exists is repugnant. There is no difference between that and God sending mentally disabled persons or babies to hell who have not confessed Christ as saviour. _________________ Todd
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| 2014/9/1 21:59 | Profile |
| Re: | | I'm really not disagreeing with most of this and the general stance. its just that I believe sometimes those who take the name of Christ condemn those who God is not condemning, and justify those who God is not justifying
Ravi Zacharias said once to this type of question, "if we believe God is good and right, we should trust God will do rightly for all those who haven't heard the gospel" (paraphrase)
generally people who obey their conscience believe in some sort of higher being, God. faith and obeying conscience pretty much go together. Moses broke faith with God at Meribah. i broke faith with God and got mad at my wife. my conscience said not to.
Ray Comfort interviewed a bunch of people about whether they would murder someone for 1 million dollars. or 1 billion. most of them said they would do it for the right price. but the common denominator for those who said they would never do that, was a belief in God.
I just don't think God would punish a person when they have some type of faith and do what is right
but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. (Act 10:35)
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| 2014/9/1 23:30 | | brothagary Member

Joined: 2011/10/23 Posts: 2556
| Re: | | brother its much better to keep the bible in context act10;35 is actually speaking about proselytes and gentiles that actually had faith in the god of Abraham Issac and Jacob,not demons . Paul said that the gods of the pagans are actually demons ,,thats why he said you cant sit and table of god and table of demons .Under the old covenant gentiles weren't full excepted and treated as the children of Abraham were ,but peter is saying under the new covenant this is now true ,but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him. (Act 10:35)
So when you say that god wont punish some one with some type of faith and do what is right ,that is an oxymoron ,,if that is the right word .
One .the pagan gentiles have faith in either idols which Paul said are connected with demons or faith in there own imagination making an idol of that in there mind and heart,so it is not faith in any Deity .The bible says these things are an abomination and not except able to god .
Two .the above people are not doing right in god eyes and the so called good things that they may do are tainted by idolatry,and are filthy rags in the sight of god ,,god also said that about Israel because of idolatry and not have repentance toward him .
Please dont think im condemning them ,the bibles says they are guilty before god.
Greg ,Paul west ,or Robert ,moderators i sincerely ask for you to correct me if the bible doesnt teach this i dont want to cross the line an continue in this thread ,as to seem like i want to argue with our brothers and press an agenda , this is not my intention ,,so i will bow now to avoid that |
| 2014/9/2 0:27 | Profile |
| Re: | | What happens to those who have never heard the gospel? I would add to that group little children who die before they have the mental capacity to understand the gospel. What about those born with downs syndrome? And then you have all the people who died before Jesus died on the cross. A calvinist like James White would probably tell you that they will all go to hell because that was Gods will for them. I would tell you that I simply don't know the answer, but I trust God to do the right thing, and He doesn't care if I know the answer or not. Sorry if my answer is not theological enough:)
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| 2014/9/2 3:03 | | Heydave Member

Joined: 2008/4/12 Posts: 1306 Hampshire, UK
| Re: | | TMK wrote "The idea that God will send people to hell because He placed them in an area with no realistic access to the gospel is repellent, at least to me."
Well God does not care what you think is repellent! I'm not saying this is what God does, but who are we to sit in judgement on God? This sums up all that is wrong in the many statements made on this thread. It is man's reasonings about what is fair and just, but we are not the decider of what is just. We have to stay with what God reveals in His word and bend to that. To do otherwise is to be proud and setting ourselves above God.
In fact if you knew the scriptures you would know that God does place all people where he determines, BUT that they might seek Him and find Him.
Acts 17:26-27 “And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their pre-appointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, “so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us".
I believe what God says, not what I think.
_________________ Dave
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| 2014/9/2 4:51 | Profile |
| Dear brother Matt | | pre-dawn here, Tuesday morning, and I simply could not rest until I wrote this publicly to you, fore it is I who am sorry that I might have even grieved you, with the thought that you "offended" me, Even though my letter/post seemingly to YOU, contained language that would indicate "offense" committed, that is not the case, my dear brother.
I been up since 3AM, made coffee, tuned into NOAA for the weather. (I live rural and got chores to do) then I went into the Word, 2nd Peter.....and all the while, you were on my soul, and i'm searching with the Holy Spirit, HOW to explain to what is tearing at me, as well as saying "please forgive me" if I grieved you in my prior letter/post.
as Messiah, who lives IN me, and thru me, let me say this; as I indicated before Jesus references the "good man"...many times in the Gospel accounts...O, Blessed Red Letters!!!....when Messiah speaks, I have to go over His Words so many times....this is Precious Time spent, as He becomes SO REAL to me...and He will NOT ALLOW ME, to look at fellow men and women as being "no good"...or having nothing good in them. To REFLECT Messiah IN me, I cant do that......am I making sense?
I must, I simply must look at them, with compassion, mercy and steadfast love. Does this happen all the time?...no, im a broke clay vessel also, sometimes I get angry, or impatient, but I always have Messiah Jesus and God the Holy Ghost to PERFECT me in this short walk, we call life.....and I can plead the Blood of Christ, I can ask for the Indwelling Holy Spirit to fill me....and I can count on the discipline of God, to set me straight.
at risk of being redundant, as God is my Witness, I cannot look at others as having no good in them, every soul is precious to the Master of the Universe....now at the same time, YES, our "discernment" will tell us, when we are dealing with a "son of the dark".....and I avoid them, ask God to have mercy on them, HOPING for the best. Hope.
My seeming "offense" is more geared to my Godly grief, in that I believe the small c church has failed God miserably since 315 AD....and even Martin Luther, who started so strong, so anointed, finished so shamefully with his letter, "on Jews and their Lies"......for look at ALL the "denominations"!!...basically religious institutions, with divergent doctrines, and headquarters, and 'ordained clergy'...and moneybags......its so much AGAINST what Jesus prayed in the "High Priestly Prayer" of John 17..."as We are One" (https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=25485)
Dear brother, I do not know you, face to face, your background, your life, your calling, your struggles in a world that grows darker by the day....so you didn't "offend" me.....I was "stirred" to say what I had to say, because grief consumes me at the some of impotence of those who consider themselves "super-apostles" in these days, all teaching different things or "isms", putting out books...or parking themselves on TV screens pleading for filthy lucre...or heading up mega-churches, either nursing secret sin, and/or keeping the flock in ecclesiastical bondage......when all they should be teaching is "Christ and Him Crucified".
The "helpless and harassed" of this world should be coming to Christ, because HE IS ENOUGH.......not to take hold of some shallow "get out of hell free card" bellowed and taught from dead dry pulpits.
Even Paul wished himself "cursed and cut off from Christ", if he could bring in the tribe of his flesh, the Hebrews. Walking with Jesus, should be MORE than enough NOW, this moment.......if Heaven wasn't dangled as a "sweetener", and Hell threatened like a "drink of Drano"....how many would follow Messiah Jesus NOW?....suffer NOW? .....be sweet NOW? love the impossible Love NOW?
how many?.....
Rob Bell?....who's he? just a man.fleeting.
John MacArthur?.........who's he? just a man.fleeting.
Would to God every preacher and pastor in this land, this Sabbath, get on their faces, abase themselves, and humbly ask the Lord Jesus to Pastor the Church they are called to.
this nation, this land would change overnight.
May the Grace and Peace and Mercy of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit, forgive me if I grieved you with my words, in His love, neil |
| 2014/9/2 7:06 | | TMK Member

Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| Re: Dear brother Matt | | Heydave wrote:
"I'm not saying this is what God does, but who are we to sit in judgement on God?"
What do you think God does to a child born in the slums of New Delhi who is sick from malnutrition his whole life; never hears the name of Jesus and dies from illness at age 16?
We know what is right and wrong because God instills that in us. We are made in His image. So I think we are able to say what would be right and wrong in the above scenario. _________________ Todd
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| 2014/9/2 10:05 | Profile |
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