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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Jesus Movement vs. The Emergent Church by Steve Gallagher

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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

I posted this to my blog along with the direct link. I find it to be that important especially as I cross paths with many who seem to share the same ideal of the Emergent church. Love without boundaries is not love at all. It is a motto I used when dealing with these Emerger people.


_________________
John

 2014/8/31 10:32Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Rob Bell’s denial of eternal punishment goes hand in hand with a warped view of the gospel. No wonder. Each error fuels and exacerbates the other. Eliminate every hint of punishment for sin; ignore the wrath of an offended deity; dismiss the demands of divine justice, and you abolish any need for the gospel.



This is well put and indicative of much preaching today. If they don't believe that God's wrath has been revealed from heaven against man's wickedness and that He wouldn't excercise wrath against the sins of men and women, then ipso facto, you have no gospel to proclaim.

The reason that some sit in church still in their sins is because they've never been brought to face their true condition before God's righteous standard.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2014/8/31 16:07Profile
mattf12486
Member



Joined: 2012/9/3
Posts: 41


 Re:

The man spent an entire book challenging whether hell was an actual place people go after death. His view, from what I remember, was hell was when you lose a loved one or get diagnosed with cancer. He reminds me of the serpent in the garden who challenged the word of God with questions. This Bell character is slippery like a serpent and attempts to camouflage his true position.

Someone brought up the Ghandi video that really tipped off Bell's true position. He's unwilling to believe that a good God would send a "good" man to hell. The problem is no one is good but he doesn't seem to get that...

 2014/8/31 16:33Profile









 Re:

About Gandhi. The thing is people will be judged based on the light revealed to them, correct? Paul talks about spiritual Jews, or inward Jews, in Romans 2. "They have not the law. But do the things in the law, it being written on their hearts." "And they will judge ye, who have the law, are a transgressor of the law"

Doesn't this make sense?

Billy Graham said he went to other countries evangelizing and people who never heard the gospel would say to him, "I KNEW that jesus in my heart. but didn't know who/what he was". to me that's an inward spiritual jew. obeying God's voice with the limited knowledge you have.

 2014/8/31 17:17
mattf12486
Member



Joined: 2012/9/3
Posts: 41


 Re:

I completely agree that people will be judged based on the light that has been revealed to them, but that will only be enough to condemn them. God requires perfection and 1 sin is enough to separate us from God. The idea that a lost tribesman knows "Jesus" in his heart but has never heard of him is against scripture and opens the door to universalism imo. I've heard what Billy Graham said and while i think that he is a sincere and sound Christian, he is sincerely wrong about this. How will they hear without a preacher? That's why we need missionaries.

 2014/8/31 19:55Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 6650
NC, USA

 Re:

Missionaries will not reach every person.


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Todd

 2014/8/31 23:30Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 2556


 Re:

spot on mati.

Does not the bible say he who has the son has life but he who does not have the son does not have life ,unless one is born again he can not see the kingdom of heaven

That quote from romans about gentiles having the law on there heart ,is speaking about us not the idolater living in the amazon or some tribe of necromancers .

No ware in the bible does it literal teach that the unbelievers and pagans idolaters will be judged by the light given them ,and some will make it to heaven ,,

This is why in the old covenant and the new covenent there is elections ,not of works but of him who calls

That type of devilish teaching undermines the whole Gospel,,and is a works salvation

How does an idol worshiper obey the light of his conscience and get saved ,, what must he do ,,repent of sin ,does he even need to do that ,there is not one single example of that type of liberal Gospel , highway to heaven


Romans 8;28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.…

29
Every single person god wants to be with him in heaven, will be in heaven god will receive them unto him self he foreknew each and every one from the smallest to the greatest .

He has it preplanned it, and his by power, through the blood ,and the spirit will effectively draw all those who he predestined with out exception ,Jesus said you didnt choose me but i chose you .
30
Every single soul the he foreknew and wants ,he sends out the Gospel call to them personally ,and to those it is a completely effective call to there hearts and spirits the love of Christ constrains them as it did to Paul .

Every single one of these souls bar none ,is justfied and declared right with god through the righteousness imputed to him ,the righteousness of god ,he does this through the faith of the son of god ,sanctification is the evidence, for he who is born of god does not continue to practice sin for god seed is in him and he cannot practice sin

God will completely effectively and bring home to glory all these souls that he for knew intamently before the foundation of the world and he will lose none

Jesus said this is the will of the father that all those who the father has given me will come to me ,and i will lose none , but raise them up in the last day ,no one is able to pluck them out of my fathers hand ,glorification will take place according to gods good pleasure and mercy ..

sorry about that just had to get that of my chest

 2014/9/1 0:50Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Yes Gary is right. The Romans 2 verse (law written on their heart) is taken completely out of context when applied to unbelievers.

In context Paul is addressing his letter to Jewish and Gentile believers at the church in Rome. He stating the fact that although the gentile 'believers' were not given the law, the law is written on their hearts. Also there is no benefit to the Jewish believers who have the law, if the law is not an inward reality. He is really explaining the New Covenant, which is the theme of the whole letter.

He is definitely not saying pagans can be saved if they show good works!! THE major sin against a Holy God is worship of anything other than God himself.

BTW, Gandi certainly did hear and know the gospel, but he rejected it as far one can tell from historical accounts.


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Dave

 2014/9/1 5:08Profile
mattf12486
Member



Joined: 2012/9/3
Posts: 41


 Re:

Amen, he's referencing gentile believers and explaining the reality of the new covenant being fulfilled in these gentile believers. He's also explaining that the purpose of the law was primarily to point one to the sacrificial work of Christ.

The whole theme of the opening chapters of Romans is summed up in Romans 3:9,10 ... For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
3:10 There is none righteous, no, not one.

Many seem unwilling to face the fact that all are guilty before God and that they are in desperate need of the gospel.

 2014/9/1 10:54Profile
mattf12486
Member



Joined: 2012/9/3
Posts: 41


 Re: Missionaries will not reach every person.

So since missionaries will not reach every person do you think there will be a special category of people in heaven who have never heard of Christ but believe in a God of their own understanding?

Paul says clearly in Romans 10:12-15 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. For whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Acts 4:12 Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.

 2014/9/1 11:06Profile





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