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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5677


Yes but how would martial law lead to the beheading of Christians as opposed to other groups and why would beheading be necessary when a bullet in the head is more efficient?


 2014/7/30 19:16Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5677



I am not being sarcastic. The OP sets forth an incredible scenario so I believe it is ok to ask how this might happen.

Ok the alien invasion part was not a seroius comment but my point is that something HUGE would have to happen.

And in a prior post I agreed with Oracio that the best defense in any case is to be right with Jesus.

What I would like to know is how this HUGE something that would have to happen, like an asteroid strike or nuclear conflagration or volcanic disasters would lead to Christians being corralled into lines for beheading machines.

I think a much likelier scenario for persecution of this type and scale would be anti semitism, the seeds of which are already in the works. Art Katz (many teachings on this site) believed that great persecution would come to the Church because it will dare to seek to aid and hide Jews when this great new holocaust comes. That may be a possible scenario.


 2014/7/30 19:27Profile

Joined: 2012/3/23
Posts: 58


Could be because beheading a person is more intimidating then a gun. Don't forget about the history of "death machines or devices" made by mad men. Many of them could just pierce their hearts for quick death but the wicked heart loves torture,causing pain and putting fear on people.

David Cisneros

 2014/7/31 0:11Profile

Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: A Vision of Upcoming Martyrdom in America

May I ask a question, why would persecution break out in a country that for all apparent comments on this forum is not proclaiming the gospel anyway?

Zeke Oosthuis

 2014/7/31 0:52Profile

Joined: 2006/3/31
Posts: 114


I think in America and my country also, we are going down and down more.

The thing is this... when does anybody goes to jail or even to death: when they disobey the law. But the laws that are created now are more and more unbiblical. So in a couple of years (probably) there will be laws that we cannot follow as christians, and therefore we are a 'threath for the country' and we are called 'rebels'.

We will go to jail and be persecuted not because we did anything wrong, but because all the people hate the light and call the ligth evil.

We will go to jail while they call us gay-haters (not agreeing with gay-marriage), child-abusers (chastizing), rebels against the state (streetpreaching/evangelising), etc.

When we are called like that, we are going to housechurches and small meetings, and becoming even a deeper threath to the nations. Then more and more are people happy to kill us to make us go away, because we will not change our mind on these things. Because we say that what they call good, that those things are wrong.

I see this coming for America, but also voor my country (the Netherlands).

Wijnand de Ridder

 2014/7/31 3:03Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2277

 Staying behind Israel

Or as one put it, continuing to believe for a redeemed Jacob before we see the redemption. In my opinion, continuing to do that in spite of Israel's present unbelief is likely going to cause the church to be even more unpopular as world opinion continues to shift more and more against Israel which will likely shift in this country also. I'm thinking a new wave of anti-semitism may not be that far off and if Christians continue to maintain faith in a prophetic destiny for Israel then that could cause persecution. It's going to become more costly to believe Israel has a future in Christ and could lead to persecution while all the while a growing civil war within the church itself as to Israel's relevance and destiny will be occuring

David Winter

 2014/7/31 7:21Profile

Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


by ZekeO on 2014/7/31 0:52:08

May I ask a question, why would persecution break out in a country that for all apparent comments on this forum is not proclaiming the gospel anyway?

i think this is a really good point. its one reasons i see the US coming under judgement for turning its back on God. As for persecution it could be down the road but i do believe some major shifts have to happen. i think things are going that way little by little but i don't see us as being there yet.


 2014/7/31 9:06Profile


TMK writes..........

"What I would like to know is how this HUGE something that would have to happen, like an asteroid strike or nuclear conflagration or volcanic disasters would lead to Christians being corralled into lines for beheading machines."

I think we may all agree that Jesus is coming relatively soon. Where we may disagree is on the subject of rapture. Lets assume there is no rapture and Jesus is coming soon, then the saints will go through the great tribulation. The Scriptures tells us that it will be worse than anything that has ever happened before in history, in fact the Lord must shorten those days for the elects sake or we would all be dead.

Just 70 years ago, in the heart of educated and cultured Europe, in a country that pronounced itself to be Christian, an evil man arose and in six short years, killed six million Jews for the mere fact of being Jews. He shoveled them into gas chambers and then burned them in furnaces, men, woman and children, sparing none. Now that was just 70 years ago. The notion that something huge would have to happen for the world to turn on, and America to turn on, so called " Fundamentalists," meaning people who believe entirely in the Bible, is not only not far fetched but is well within the realms of reason.

Lets say tomorrow there is an attack by Muslim extremists on multiple cities. New York, Washington, London, Paris Rome and Moscow are hit simultaneously with nuclear suitcase bombs. Rather than the three thousand dead of 9/11, there is one hundred thousand dead in each city. The world is revulsed and is brought together because of this great tragedy. Fundamentalists of all stripes are universally condemned and outlawed. To state publicly that there is only one true religion, only one way to heaven, becomes illegal. Such people are denounced as those who have caused all the troubles in the world. They are seen as a cancer on society which society must rid itself of. So society gives them a chance to renounce such believes. At the same time, the major religions of the world have a summit. Islam, Christianity and the Jewish faith come together for a summit in Rome. Pope Francis leads the summit because he is universally respected. When the meeting is over they announce that they can all trace their roots back to Abraham. That they all worship the same God just in different ways. They announce that there are multiple roads to heaven and that to say otherwise is merely hate speech. They agree to drop Jesus and Mohammed from their literature and only speak in terms of God and His prophets, agreeing to stand upon what they agree on and bringing a historic unity that will usher in a new day, a new order for the world where there is equality for all.

The vast majority of the world hail this and rejoice in it. A small minority resist it and in the shadow of the multiple hundreds and thousands of deaths, the world hates them with a perfect hatred. They hate them more than the Germans hated the Jews. The minority cannot find work and are ultimately arrested for continuing to " share the Gospel." While they are a minority, they are still in the millions and camps are set up to imprison them because the prison system cannot contain them. An ever growing hatred by the general public and resentment that they have to be fed and kept eventually leads to the decision to make it a capital offense punishable by death to be a fundamental Christian.

If I had time and space, I could weave into that scenario the rise of the anti-christ who orchestrates all of those events and performs signs and wonders and miracles in fron of the whole world to legitimize what he and the Pope and the religious leaders are teaching and saying about the minority, the remnant who refused to bow their knees to such a world religion................bro Frank

 2014/7/31 10:28

Joined: 2010/7/9
Posts: 295
Canton, Michigan


I agree with the fact martyrdom is coming to America. There are reports that the American Government has purchased 30,000 Guillotines. There are also reports that a law has been signed into order that the guillotine would be used for execution of prisoners who wish to donate their organs to those in need as this form of death would preserve them as opposed to lethal injection and electrocution.

So the question comes, Who is going to be putting Gods people to death?

Luke 21:12-17 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. (13) And it shall turn to you for a testimony. (14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: (15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

Who are "they"?

(16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kins folks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. (17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.

I am convinced that those who profess to know Christ in word only will be seeking to put to death those who know Christ through their words and deeds.

Try speaking the truth now to fellow Christians about obeying Gods commandments, covenant marriage and divorce, obedience to Christ, sanctification, rock music in the church, abortion, homosexuality, the genuine Baptism of the Holy Spirit as opposed to another spirit....

I've seen it on this own forum those who take a stand for Gods truth and those who oppose it. Gods truth and Jesus Christ insight rage, murder, and hatred in professing Christians because they want to have their cake and eat it to. They love the world and they serve another Jesus.

Professing Christians want to Christianize all manner of worldly practices, we have Christian Rock, Christian Rap, Christian Yoga, even the very events that brought Jesus Christ into the world and took Him out of the world are rooted in pagan practices.

Christmas and Easter are pagan in their origins yet the church celebrates them with a vengeance. We have taken pagan practices that God forbids and we have Christianized them. The world wants to create a Jesus that is "acceptable", one who will accept their love for this world and it's ways and that PLEASES their flesh.

Persecution is already IN America and Martyrdom will follow on a much grander scale, if it were not true then America only consists of those who Profess to know Him and not those who Confess to know Him.

Gods people sense that the end is nearing, we know it in our spirits, and as this day is approaching are we being diligent in working while it is still day and before the night cometh? When the night comes it will be to late.

Many a watchmen are sounding the alarm and blowing the trumpet for the sword is coming upon the land. Judgement has already begun in Gods house, it's not coming, it's here! The Trojan Horse is behind the walls and yet, those who have eyes, see not, and those who have ears hear not! They are without understanding.

And when we warn our motivation is love not condemnation and the response by many is hatred and murder. I thank God for His body and His Saints who have been faithful and bold to proclaim the truth and for Gods hand of protection.

Brethren, God gives a special grace to those who will die for Him. Every Christian who confesses Christ should read Foxes Book of Martyrs and you will see the grace God has extended to those who love Him.

Is it not better to live our lives soberly, prayerfully, and watchful as if martyrdom could come at any moment as opposed to saying it won't happen in my life time? Either way, once we take our last breath, we will have crossed a point of no return, no chance to go back and do it again.

May God help me and all those who read this thread to choose wisely, may we all confess Him as our Lord and Savior in both word and deed, and most importantly may we all be known of Him, in Jesus Name.

David Fella

 2014/7/31 10:59Profile


1 Thes.5:19-22
Do not quench the spirit, do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully, hold fast to that which is good, abstain from every form of evil.

Dear brethren, the OP was presented as a prophetic dream given by a sister. It was not given as a plausible or way out scenerio.. But presented as a warning from God.

The question for us to consider is the dream viable. For those who embrace cessationism or praterism they will reject the dream. But for those who believe God God still speaks such. Then we need to examine it and take to heart what is true.

I do believe our brother Frank has put before us a very realistic scenereo of how the dream could come about. The disturbing thing about the scenerio is that it comes close to home.


 2014/7/31 12:11

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