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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5641
NC, USA

 As pertains to Israel/Hamas...

This is simply a question for discussion and not trying to start a firefight.

What if the Israelis were Christians. What should their response to Hamas be? The same as what Israelis are doing now, or something different?


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Todd

 2014/7/29 13:20Profile
Heydave
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Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re: As pertains to Israel/Hamas...

TMK,

it's not really a valid question. Israel is a nation state, not a religious group. There is no 'Christian' nation state.


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Dave

 2014/7/29 13:30Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5641
NC, USA

 Re:

It is a philosophical question.

Assuming a bunch of Christians are living in a certain land and enemies of the Christians want to live on part of their land and resort to terrorist acts to get what they want... What should the Christians response be?


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Todd

 2014/7/29 14:14Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

As with a lot of philosophical questions, it is not valid.

Israel is a nation not a religeous community living in a nation. They are a nation. I don't know if behind your question is really that they are jews. That of course would be antisemitism.

The only valid comparison would be, should a nation such as the USA just forgive all those who commit murder, because that is the Christian thing to do. You would have anarchy within weeks!


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Dave

 2014/7/29 14:32Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5641
NC, USA

 Re:

There is no antisemitism whatsoever in my thought or my question.

Lets just change the facts.

1000 Christians live on some land out west in the US that they own in community. They have worked hard to purchase the land and have established homes, farms etc. Non Christian enemies want their land or a portion of it and resort to acts of terrorism to force the Christians to hand over their land.

What should be the response of the Christians?

I don't have an answer; just looking for a discussion.


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Todd

 2014/7/29 15:30Profile









 Re:

Michael Sattler, one of the early Anabaptists, was faced with a similar question. The country he was living in was at war with the Moslem Turks. Could he as A Christian under the Lordship of Christ take up arms against an enemy of the nation state he was residing in.

After wrestling with the teachings of Christ reflected in the Sermon on the Mount. Particularly regarding love of enemies. Sattler decided to not bear arms against the Turks.

When one studies the writings of the Anabaptists this was more than a philosophical question. But it was how one lives out the reality of being a follower of Jesus Christ by taking up their cross.

The greatest injustice ever done on the face of this planet was done by evil men against Jesus. Peter was prepared to draw a sword to defend Jesus. Yet Jesus told him to put his sword away. For all who take up the sword will die by the sword. Jesus also said that His Father would put at His disposal more than twelve legions of angels.

The above account recorded in Mat. 26:51-54 should serve as an example of how we respond to our enemies as Christians. If Jesus had wanted us to take up the carnal weapons of man to defend ourselves. Then He would have allowed Peter to take um all on.

Instead Jesus said from the cross Father forgive them for they know not what they do (Lk 24:34). This is our example to forgive our enemies who come against us.

Respectfully my thoughts.

Blaine

 2014/7/29 15:35
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

TMK,

In changing the facts, you have changed the question and it bears no relation to your original question.

This new question is about a group if Christians living in the USA and how they should respond to acts of terrorism against them. In this circumstance I would say they should be governed by the law of Christ and love their enemies to the point of suffering loss and possibly death.

Now to try and relate this to Israel & Hamas you have to compare Israel to the USA as they are both nation states. So should the USA government in which these terrorist are attacking the Christians also let them have their way? Or should they uphold the rule of law and protect ALL their citizens? What is the God ordained principle for governments according to Romans 13.


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Dave

 2014/7/29 16:07Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5641
NC, USA

 Re:

I just should not have used the Israel/Hamas connection. My bad.

My intent was to discuss what the Christian response to acts of terrorism should be.

Bear I appreciate your response regarding Michael Sattler.

I think the response is easier if just I am being affected. But if they are coming after my wife or grandkids it gets more difficult.


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Todd

 2014/7/29 16:30Profile









 Re:

Hi TMK, lets narrow it down a little. What if you went out on the town one evening wearing a coat and a cloak ( okay, people dont wear cloaks any more but bear with me) Someone comes up and robs you of your coat, a coat you worked hard to buy. What do you do? Do you resist him or do you give him your cloak also? When you have the answer to that question feel free to extrapolate :) .......bro Frank

 2014/7/29 16:35









 Re:

Dave as I understand Romans 13:1-7 God ordained governments to keep order. In other words God ordains governments to.keep us from reverting to the law of the jungle.

It stands to reason that governments have a responsibility to protect their citizens. For scripture days this is why we pay taxes.Thus as Christians we are to pay our taxes as unpleasant as that may be. Also to submit to the laws of Caesar as they are given to keep order.

Now for the question under discussion. What if the government compelled by law Christians to take up arms against an invading army? I will keep the discussion to the OP as such a discussion as this could go in any direction.

Blaine







 2014/7/29 17:15





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