Greek Help in James (3)

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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Greek Help in James

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ReceivedText
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Joined: 2005/4/22
Posts: 257
Seattle, Washington, USA

IRONMAN

Quote:

The verse also says that the men wrote as they were moved by the spirit so the words were given to them by the Spirit and therefore require the spirit to interpret. is this a correct assessment?

I don't think it is quite right. But I appreciate your humility.

Here's the danger: The word of God is infallable. I am not. The danger is in thinking that we can hear God INFALLABLY. While we can hear from God apart from scripture, we may miss it from time to time. (And miss it big!) This is why we need the anchor of the written Scripture. When my heart condemns me, I have only to read the precious promises of Scripture and faith comes through the Word.

It sounds spiritual to say we don't need an accurate Bible, just the Holy Spirit. But if we will see how this practically plays out, we realize that it is not the Holy Spirit that fails, but our very FALLABLE senses.

Think about it, how many guys are there out there who say, "I just really feel that God is telling me it is OK to live with my girlfriend as long as we keep going to church." Now that seems far fetched, but how do we know? Who are we to question whether he is hearing from God or not? By the Word? Of course. But if we take the standard of the Word out of the way, we make the gospel relative to what we think, feel, and THINK WE HEAR.

This is a dangerous, precipitous slope. I would spare you.

Blessings,

TR

2005/4/24 3:07

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IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

Re: IRONMAN

Quote:

Here's the danger: The word of God is infallable. I am not. The danger is in thinking that we can hear God INFALLABLY. While we can hear from God apart from scripture, we may miss it from time to time. (And miss it big!) This is why we need the anchor of the written Scripture. When my heart condemns me, I have only to read the precious promises of Scripture and faith comes through the Word.

But even in the interpretation of that scripture that you may read at a time when your heart condemns you, the Holy spirit must still minister to you in order for prefection right?

Quote:

It sounds spiritual to say we don't need an accurate Bible, just the Holy Spirit. But if we will see how this practically plays out, we realize that it is not the Holy Spirit that fails, but our very FALLABLE senses.

Our senses do fail us even in the translation of the bible hence all the different versions right? so if we can't get over that hurdle are we not dead in the water? If even the very scholars and learned ones who translate the bible for the rest of us laymen (who have no idea what textus receptus means or what the antioch texts mean) (still don't know what those are exactly nor do I know the difference) can't agree on what the perfect translation is, then what hope is there for us if we need this perfect text and don't have it? The people to which the epistles were written were not the most learned of men, probably didn't have in their posession a copy of the holy writs of the day and yet they simply believed God would minister these things to them and He did. I'm sure as the epistles were read out to the people some strained to hear and maybe misheard some things but God filled them in as He ministered to each one in His time. The pharisees had a perfect text or understanding (using loosly here) or both but yet Christ said that they made it harder for people to enter heaven because of all that. they had the prefect text and got so wrapt up in it they didn't let God lead them and look what Christ said. There is also a danger in searching for the perfect text or interpretation because then there is a danger of then neglecting the spirit of God when it comes to interpreting it perfectly.

I've learned lately not to rely on my senses because God said to me they will not always tell me if I'm on the right track but to trust in Him that HE has me on the right track for His purpose. He said to learn to trust Him in spirit. That's a rather hard thing to explain but really it's a thing that just comes with walking in the spirit. How do I know I'm in the spirit? I can no more explain that than explaining how I know I'm in love. You just know. SInce I can't be perfect, He is perfection for me.

Quote:

Think about it, how many guys are there out there who say, "I just really feel that God is telling me it is OK to live with my girlfriend as long as we keep going to church." Now that seems far fetched, but how do we know? Who are we to question whether he is hearing from God or not? By the Word? Of course. But if we take the standard of the Word out of the way, we make the gospel relative to what we think, feel, and THINK WE HEAR.

Oh I know people can say such things but God is watching and will do what He will to those who use His name falsly for their own benefit. I must ask though, what is the definition of a marriage? Doesn't the bible say that a man should leave his father's house etc. I'm not sure there is another place which says that when a man leaves his house he must do this and that for the marriage to be valid. Help me out on that. See if we test the person's stance that God said this to me by our own interpretation of the word (our minds that is) then we have no leg to stand on, our minds are not perfect nor can they fathom or make sense of the spiritual aspect of the word of GOd. We ourselves in such a test would also need the holy spirit's ministry would we not?

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Farai Bamu

2005/4/24 11:28

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philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

Re:

Quote:

The truth of the matter is that every time we "go to the Greek," we are RE-TRANSLATING the Bible. Let me ask you a question. Do you feel qualified to translate the Bible? The men who translated the KJV were eminent scholars who really knew Jesus Christ and had the fear of God that if they were to gravely err in their translation that their name would be blotted out of the book of Life.

I hear this constantly. The truth is they were a mixed bunch who persecuted the outer extremes of 'Christendom' such as the Catholics or the Anabaptists. Some of them were kingdom builders who would have done well in corporate business. The secret behind the KJV is that the NT is 83% Tyndale! They KJV tranlators interfered with his translation and improved it in very few places.

It, was incidentally, due to the persecutions of some of the KJV bible translators that a bunch of folk left here and landed at Plymouth Rock. They did not bring the KJV bible with them but the Geneva Bible. King James also activily persecuted the Geneva Bible and earlier version to make a clear path for his KJV.

Some of them were godly men. All of them were brilliant scholars. Mostly they were a group of men that King James knew he could control to produce a version which would support his views of kingship and episcopal government.

And I still use it as my preferred version! :-D

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Ron Bailey

2005/4/25 15:27

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