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PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Greek Help in James

Ok can the word pis'-tis which is translated faith 239/244 in the KJV be understood as "conviction of a moral or Godly truth"? I belive it can..(I seen something similar in Thayers and Strongs) but i have no greek knowledge. If it is so then I have just had more than a lightbulb, but a spotlight turned on James Chapter 2 where he talks so much about works and faith. Because if faith in that scripture can mean conviction of a truth then it makes perfect sense what he is talking about. "if you are convicted of something but not responsive to it (works) this is it nothing. and just because you are convicted of sin that doesnt mean that you are saved" I would like to hear some input. Ive just been thinking alot about the book of James and this is a conclusion I have come up with. Thanks guys!
*edit* Are pure works not this: that we respond to the conviction of God? *edit*


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Josh Parsley

 2005/4/18 23:06Profile
dohzman
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 Re: Greek Help in James

matt13:3-9


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D.Miller

 2005/4/19 9:39Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
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 Re:

Quote:
matt13:3-9



I guess I don't understand :-? How is that a response to my question?


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Josh Parsley

 2005/4/19 14:51Profile
dohzman
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 Sins of ommision--list

James 4:17 to him that knows to do good and doeth it not, it is sin.


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D.Miller

 2005/4/20 7:12Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re: Sins of ommision--list

OK.. I guess I just dont understand.. I was asking if the word faith could be interpreted conviction of a moral or religious truth in that scripture. If you are trying to help then please explain..I really hope I'm not coming off rude but I have no idea what you are trying to say.. :-(


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Josh Parsley

 2005/4/20 8:17Profile
dohzman
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 Re: Hey Bro!

Please forgive me. I posted here what I intended to post in another forumn. Oops, sorry about that. I don't have alot of time and this week is way to busy, leaving in a few hrs for Minn., back tues. So alot of what I posted this week has been just pop in and get off and get prepared for Minn.(St. Paul). So bro. your not off base or rude, I just posted somethig here I intended to post in another place. Just pray for me. God Bless Bro. Daryl


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D.Miller

 2005/4/20 12:47Profile
PreachParsly
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 Re:

Ok no problem.. 8-) I just thought maybe I couldnt see what you were trying to say.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/4/20 15:10Profile
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 Re: Greek Help in James

The word 'believe' and 'faith' are used 19 times in James.

Jam_1:3; Jam_1:6; Jam_2:1; Jam_2:5; Jam_2:14; Jam_2:17; Jam_2:18; Jam_2:19; Jam_2:20; Jam_2:22; Jam_2:23; Jam_2:24; Jam_2:26; Jam_5:15;

The demons 'believe' in the unity of God, but it has no impact upon their lives. They can only 'believe' what God reveals of Himself and He has clearly revealed to them His unity. They are in awe of the Triune God but they only tremble.

I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to do with 'faith' in James, but it is the same word used throughout the NT.


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Ron Bailey

 2005/4/20 17:42Profile
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 Re:

Well... I was just looking at what thayers and strongs said about the word faith.
Strongs says this:
pis'-tis
From G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

Thayer says this:
pistis
Thayer Definition:
1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it...

And the thought came to mind that conviction doesn't mean anything if you do not respond to it. And it just seemed to go together that conviction without works (a response or change of action) is dead. I wasnt trying to limit faith to just a conviction. I was just asking if that was a valid way to interpret the verse. Or in other words could the word conviction take the place of the word faith in those few verses in James and you get the same meaning out of it.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/4/20 18:46Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Thayer Definition:
1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it...



'Thayer's Dictionary' can be a valuable tool but remember that he was a unitarian and almost certainly had no living faith in Christ. As a consequence his definitions will tend towards rationalistic explanations rather than a genuine spiritual dynamic.

We sometimes need to look carefully at words like faith which encompass whole worlds of thought. [u]I love[/u] God, my wife, my children, ice-cream, Staffordshire Bull Terriers... [u]I believe[/u] in God, the Atkins Diet, Port Vale Football Club, the Democratic Party,

We need to know the person and the context to appreciate what that person means by 'believe' or 'love' at that time.

BTW: Not all the above are true!! It was just an illustration. :-?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/4/21 4:10Profile





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