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 Re:

Gary respectfully brother I probably spend as much time in the word as you and come to a different conclusion. But since these discussions are frowned on in the forum we may have to lovingly agree to disagree on a certain theological system.

I might add I was in this system for several years before a simple reading of the New Testament brought me out of it.

Blessing to you bro. Appreciate your love for the truth.

Bear

 2014/7/6 8:03









 Re:

Brethren I am reminded of a comment by Richard Wormbrandt regarding the word of God. It went something line this.

Jesus is the Word of God. The Bible is the word about the Word. A commentary is a word about the word about the Word. A sermon is a word about the word about the word about the Word.

I probably did not get the exact quote right. But I think you get the picture.

Best to stay in the pure milk of the word itself. For this is how we grow.

My thoughts.

Bear.

 2014/7/6 8:09
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings

While I do agree it is important to be reading the BIBLE each day and seeking to grow in HIM. I do also believe there are no limitations to the other many resources GOD uses to teach us and grow us who HE has for us to be. I have been blessed, challenged, and seen growth in my own walk by the words given and shared here on SI, by the writings of those who have gone before as well as those who are here with us now.So many times things everyday men and woman who come to the site and post have blessed me. I have come to appreciate that GOD uses the WORD to teach me, HE uses others to teach me, HE uses life to teach me. I find if I keep my eyes on HIM, walking with HIM then there is always a teachable moment happening and it does not matter where I am or what I am doing. The HOLY SPIRIT has no boundaries and GOD has no limits.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/7/6 8:26Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5616
NC, USA

 Re:

I was listening to a Bible teacher I really like the other day and he was saying how he values commentaries but does not like his Bible to have notes, or commentary, in it. The Bible should be just the word of God. If you want a commentary you should have to put your Bible down (or go to another screen).

I think this is great advice. When I was 16 my grandma gave me a Ryrie study Bible for my b-day. It's the one I wanted because my youth pastor recommended it.

Looking back I got much of my theology not from the Word but from the copious notes explaining almost every verse.

Over the years my theology on some pretty major topics differs from that expressed in that study Bible. I wish now that I had just read the word alone without the notes.


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Todd

 2014/7/6 9:22Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

TMK I agree with that advice. The Word itself should be separate and we should not go straight to commentaries or sermons without first allowing the Word itself to speak to us directly. But once we read and meditate on a given passage there is nothing wrong with consulting other aids. That shows a teachable spirit and the Lord blesses that. I think it's interesting sometimes to hear Bible teachers discourage the use of commentaries. I think to myself, "If you don't believe I should learn from Bible commentaries, why should I learn from your Bible teaching which is similar?" In other words, "Why do you yourself try to teach others the Word if you don't believe we should learn from such aids?"


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Oracio

 2014/7/6 10:23Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Quote:

I agree that the Word of God must be the main thing that we study above all else. We must make time for it each day and meditate on it day and night. Yet there is a place for learning from gifted teachers of the Word with whom God has blessed us. Ephesians 4:11-12 says, "And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ."



The Word of God is not an end in itself. It speaks of a person. Once read the Bible memorize it, claim its facts but not have its life. Do we know Jesus Christ personally. Do we worship God with our entire body, soul and spirit? This is why the Bible does not just say belief but there is action with our belief including calls to gather as the Church, Lord's Supper, Baptism, etc. The Lord is to be experienced and worshipped and that does not happen through simply reading the Bible, it goes beyond that.

I have come to meet the God of the Word. Otherwise we will only hear of the God of the Bible and not experience Him.

John 17:3 to Know God is eternal life not to read about Him. So again the Word of God is simply a means to a more important Person. Yet of course the Word of God is the most valuable possession we have on this earthly sphere.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/7/6 10:47Profile
Oracio
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Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 2094
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

sermonindex writes:

Quote:
The Word of God is not an end in itself. It speaks of a person. Once read the Bible memorize it, claim its facts but not have its life. Do we know Jesus Christ personally. Do we worship God with our entire body, soul and spirit? This is why the Bible does not just say belief but there is action with our belief including calls to gather as the Church, Lord's Supper, Baptism, etc. The Lord is to be experienced and worshipped and that does not happen through simply reading the Bible, it goes beyond that.

I have come to meet the God of the Word. Otherwise we will only hear of the God of the Bible and not experience Him.

John 17:3 to Know God is eternal life not to read about Him. So again the Word of God is simply a means to a more important Person. Yet of course the Word of God is the most valuable possession we have on this earthly sphere.


I completely agree with all of that. My main emphasis was regarding the use of time when it comes down to reading or studying God's Word. Yes, an intimate relationship with Christ is the main thing we must have above reading or studying the Bible, for without that first and foremost our learning about the Bible is in vain. Yet, once we have that intimate relationship the Lord commands us to get into His Word and meditate on it day and night if we have it in our possession. And the Lord has given to His Church gifted teachers to help provide helpful insights into His Word.

"Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."-2Tim.2:15


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Oracio

 2014/7/6 11:11Profile









 Re:

Brethren many in nations that are hostile to the gospel do not have access to commentaries or Bible teachers. If these saints are blessed to possess even a portion of scriptures all they have is the Holy Spirit to teach them.

In our churches today there is a quenching of the Holy Spirit. Even a denying of His teaching role to the exposition of the word by seminarians. Because these men have come out of a leading seminary we accord more credit to them then to what the Holy Spirit may show a humble saint who prayerfully reads or listens to the word.

Some have made reference to Eph.4:11-12. In these verses Paul mentions that God has given to the church apostles, prophets, evangelist, pastors, and teachers. Yet these are giftings of the Holy Spirit. Just because one has received a seminary degree does not make him a Bible teacher.

Men such as John Bunyon or D. L. Moody did not possess seminary degrees. Yet these men knew the word of God and were incredible preachers and prayer warriors in their day. It was said of Bumyon if you cut him he would bleed scripture.

The Anabaptists were so steeped in the word that they confounded the Catholic and Reformed theologians in debates over believers baptism. Denny Kenniston has noted that the Anabaptist saints always had an open New Testament near by. I once was part of a church where an open commentary was preferred over the open word.

The downside of commentaries and Bible expositions is we depend more on them then on the Holy Spirit to teach us about Christ.

Blaine





 2014/7/6 13:02
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I have come to meet the God of the Word. Otherwise we will only hear of the God of the Bible and not experience Him.


This is the difference between the letter of the law and the Spirit of life. Did you know there are two trees in the Bible? One is the tree of knowledge; the other is the tree of life. Depending on which tree you feed from, it can either transform you into a saint or a pharisee. This is why I never get excited when I hear about how much time a person "spends" in the word. Under which tree they are spending their time?

Both trees yield fruit, but only one brings true Christ-conformity. The other tree, the tree of knowledge, actually brings death. Legalistic believers love to use the scriptures as a weapon, having filled their bellies with the wrong kind of fruit. The tree of knowledge bears fruit that puffs you up; the tree of life bears fruit that deflates you and magnifies Christ. It makes us small, so we can fit through the eye of a needle, and so we can receive the grace of God to overcome temptation, bad habits, selfishness, unbelief - and ultimately become more and more like Jesus Christ in every fiber of our being.

The amazing thing is that when you partake of the tree of life, you don't need to keep gorging yourself. You just need to eat it once and get it into your spirit by obeying it. Now, the other fruit, from the tree of knowledge, needs to be gorged over and over again lest it escapes your mind and you forget it. These are good tests to see if you're eating from the tree of knowledge:

1. If you're forcing yourself to remember verses, via index cards or witty mnemonics, because they keep alluding your mind.

2. If you find yourself coming under guilt and possible condemation because you missed a day or two of reading the Word.

3. If you find your Bible reading laborious and forced.

4. If a preacher or teacher makes you feel worthless to God because you don't read the Bible as often as you should, especially on account of believers in repressed countries who do not own Bibles.

5. If you pride yourself for being able to fire off categorically-memorized scripture passages, replete with the chapter and verse in order to win a debate or make yourself appear "spiritual".

Conversely, when you eat the fruit from the tree of life, you get the life of Jesus Christ built up in you and none of these silly things matter. In fact, the exact opposite is often exhibited in many of the above points: You begin to shun Bible debates; index cards have no effect; preachers and teachers who operate in the letter of the law (i.e. the tree of knowledge) are exposed by the Holy Spirit and henceforth avoided; Bible reading is spontaneous, natural, joyous, unforced and never by the clock. When you come to the Word of God as the tree of life, there is rest. Prayer naturally follows the reading, like perfume.

You have no idea how many people get furious when I teach these things. It is only about knowing Christ more deeply, more intimately, more completely. The way you approach the scriptures will either bring you to Him, or drive you away.





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Paul Frederick West

 2014/7/6 15:42Profile
brothagary
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Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1865


 Re:

that was exactly my point blain ,,,that we can spend much time feeding on scripture ,,and come to totally different conclusion ,, with out the influence of commentary's

I think also you need to make a distinction between the gifts of the holy spirit ,,and the offices of the holy spirit

I don't think we should look down and be divisive towards those who feel called to go to a seminary where a gifted teacher might reside,,,,the us and them ,,im better casue I don't go to a seminary I just rellie on the bible attitude is steeped heavily in pride and we must repnt of thinking like that,,,,im speaking generly not at any one

blessings

 2014/7/6 15:57Profile





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