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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Franklin Graham Calls on Pastors to Speak Out on Abortion, Homosexuality; Says 'God Hates Cowards'

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Hi Oracio,

I am glad we agree and any time the truth is spoken I would certainly never discourage that. To say that Franklin Graham is written off, as Greg stated, is mere presumption and hyperbole. I simply do not count him or his father in the category that we spoke of, fearless men who courted no one's favor but the Lord's..........bro Frank

 2014/5/25 12:52









 Re:

Brethren if we be honest with ourselves we really want to preserve the American culture. Those who say we need to speak out against the sins of abortion and homosexuality have only one agenda. Preserve America. Or bring America to some notion of godliness. There is no desire to reach the lost with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Simply to have a godly culture.

In the midst of this the American church has lost its stance of being a pilgrim church. It has lost the concept of being strangers and aliens in the midst of a hostile culture.

American Christians have forgotten they are citizens of a heavenly kingdom. Their King Himself told an earthly ruler that my kingdom is not of this world. His Kingdom is in a different realm.

As such we are simply ambassadors of that heavenly kingdom calling others to flee the City of Destruction, Babylon and immigrate and become citizens of His kingdom by the New birth.

An ambassador will represent the interests of his nation in the country he is posted in. The ambassador will abide by the laws of the country he is posted in. But not engage in the internal affairs of that nation. Even speaking out against evil in that nation. But if someone from that nation wants to immigrate to the ambassador`s country then the ambassador can tell them that they must leave their evil behavior to live in his country.

Granted the above analogy falls short. But we are ambassadors of a heavenly kingdom sent to call sinners to turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Our mandate is the Great Commission as stated by Jesus in Mathew 28:18-20. We are not called to speak out and judge the sins of a nation. That is God`s domain. Our calling is to reach out to the lost and call them to repentance. And do this in the love of Christ.

God did not call us to redeem culture but sinners.

Bearmaster.

 2014/5/25 15:32
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Quote:
Brethren if we be honest with ourselves we really want to preserve the American culture. Those who say we need to speak out against the sins of abortion and homosexuality have only one agenda. Preserve America. Or bring America to some notion of godliness. There is no desire to reach the lost with the gospel of Jesus Christ. Simply to have a godly culture.



Brother,

I am a Canadian and I am concerned with abortion, homosexuality, divorce, in the Church in North America. And for a whole society to become sodomite will have a great difference on the Church and the opposition against the Bible. So I do not come under your categorizing neatly that it must be an American cultural preservation issue.

I do agree with you brother I am not for any hint of thinking America is a Christian nation or that we have to save america. I hope you can see the balance in these things.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/5/25 16:13Profile
Oracio
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Another thought came to mind. In the case of Jonah we see that he was sent to warn a whole heathen city and nation of the coming judgment of God. So I believe there is biblical precedent for that kind of thing today as well. Just like those Assyrians experienced a massive awakening and were brought to repentance even so God can work today. But yes, it is through prayer and the preaching of the gospel that God can bring such an awakening. Our part is to be faithful in praying and preaching His gospel even if we don't see immediate tangible results.


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Oracio

 2014/5/25 16:22Profile
MrBillPro
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 Re:

If you don't know who you are, you are more vulnerable to be who they want you to become.


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Bill

 2014/5/25 18:25Profile









 Re:

Greg if you are talking about judging sin in the church then yes. Paul says we can do such.

I am asking on the basis if 1 Cor. 5:12--13 are we called to judge sin outside the church? The conclusion of the Apostle Paul would suggest that God is the one who will judge those sins of society.

Blaine

 2014/5/25 18:29
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Quote:
Greg if you are talking about judging sin in the church then yes. Paul says we can do such.



Brother, this is the point, Franklin Graham was preaching to those "in" the Church. That's what his message was directed towards, namely the pastors.


Quote:
I am asking on the basis if 1 Cor. 5:12--13 are we called to judge sin outside the church? The conclusion of the Apostle Paul would suggest that God is the one who will judge those sins of society.



1 Corinthians 5:12-13
New King James Version (NKJV)
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”[a]

Yes the Church is not obeying this Scripture and believers are allowed to be in open sins and never be accountable. We are not to judge (meaning to take action on the sin) for unbelievers outside the church but for believers in the Church we are to have some ability to judge (meaning to discipline) in love through elders of witnesses of the sins.

Paul is saying that we are not to judge or take action on those outside of the Church but that is not meaning we are not to acknoweldge and see their sins.

I trust you saw the quotes of martyrs I posted where they were preaching against repentance from idols.

Jesus told the people to repent, John the baptist had the same message, also the apostles told the people to repent. Should we not do likewise?


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/5/25 18:44Profile
Oracio
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Quote:
Yes the Church is not obeying this Scripture and believers are allowed to be in open sins and never be accountable. We are not to judge (meaning to take action on the sin) for unbelievers outside the church but for believers in the Church we are to have some ability to judge (meaning to discipline) in love through elders of witnesses of the sins.

Paul is saying that we are not to judge or take action on those outside of the Church but that is not meaning we are not to acknoweldge and see their sins.


Amen. There is a vast difference between "judging" those inside the church in the sense of taking action or disciplining on the one hand, and on the other hand preaching against sin outside the church to the lost. That passage is not saying we shouldn't preach against sin outside the church. That would contradict our Lord's ministry to the lost. When Jesus spoke with the woman at the well He confronted her with her sins of adultery and fornication. He also reasoned with the rich young ruler concerning breaking specific Commandments. He did this both in one to one conversations and on a public level in the open air.

Like Greg posted earlier, I wonder what we would think of revilalists like Finney who preached 90% law and 10% grace. They understood that before the cure can be appreciated and appropriated the disease needs to be exposed. The wound needs to be opened up before the healing balm can be applied. I like what Sidewalk posted about the steps of conversion (awakening, conviction, repentance, and an introduction to the Savior Jesus Christ).

In his intro to the book of Amos Matthew Henry wrote, "These prophets, having opened the wound in their reproofs and threatenings, which show all wrong, in the promises of gospel-grace open the remedy, which alone will set all to rights."


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Oracio

 2014/5/25 20:37Profile
brothagary
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 Re:

amen oraca and greg


back to diana for a minuitue,,,, now we see a clerk standing up for paul saying he wasnt blaspheming against diana

1 we dont know that the clerk followed paul around the whole time he was preaching in that town so the clerk may have been throuhly mistaken about what paul preached about but only herd him say what he hered wich may or may not been verry limated amount of preaching

2 the cleark may have beed affected by pauls preaching so he was protecting him by lieing about what paul was saying or he may have beed converted and was teeling the truth noing that there is no such thing as blaspheming the goddess becasue it was a dead idol

to use a verse like that to suport a doctrine as importaint as not preaching on particual sins when evenglising ,,is like being a farmer and build straw men to scare away doctrinal crows ,,,,,,,,its built not of clear scripture but infrences and usumtions or reading into scripture ,,,wich is a dishonest way to use scripture


3 and finaly the book of acts is not pauls journal recording eveything that took place in his ministery ,,,so to say he did not confront cutual sin like diana worship is to ilude to non fact ,that becasue the bible has no recored of paull saying a particula thing ,,then it was never said or did ,,,,this is ingorance of the cotext of what scripture is for nand why it was writtern

blessings

ps please dont take some of my words to mean i hate or have gruges as such ,,,,,i just have a limited vocabulary so i use what word i think decribe my understanding

 2014/5/25 21:56Profile









 Re:

Brethren if we are are dealing with the lost as they come our way then we urge them out of hearts of love to forsake their sins and come to Christ.

But I do not see that the church has a mandate to preach against the sins of society. This is what I am hearing in this thread. We are to preach to the lost their need for Christ. Not against the sins of a religion or society.

If you really think that preaching against a religion is going to win them to Christ. Then go to an Islamic festival in Deerborn Michigan and take a bull horn and declare the evils if Islam.
And see where that gets you. You surely want ser any Moslems come to Christ.

Or go to Salt Lake City to the Mormon temple and take your bull horn and shout all Mormons are going to hell. Where do you think this will get you. You surely want ser any Moslems come to Christ.

Westboro Baptist has a fine tradition of telling people they are bound for hell. They would say they are preaching against sin. But have they brought anybody to Christ. Very doubtful.

The lost are best engaged one on one out of hearts of love. This is our mandate. To preach and reach the lost. Not to preach against the sins if society and thus preserve culture.

Bearmaster.

 2014/5/25 22:36





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