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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Would you consider an ex-evangelical pastor who converted to Roman-Catholicism as saved?

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Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Would you consider an ex-evangelical pastor who converted to Roman-Catholicism as saved?

Would you consider an ex-evangelical pastor who converted to Roman-Catholicism as saved? Would you call him a brother in the faith or an apostate?

The reason for asking is that the answer to these questions used to be crystal clear a couple of decades ago. Today however, some progressive evangelicals seems to applaud the growing number of evangelicals who crosses the Tiber. They do not even hesitate to call them brothers in the Lord.

So what's your opinion?

Sincerely Magnus


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Magnus Nordlund

 2014/5/22 6:20Profile
DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re: Would you consider an ex-evangelical pastor who converted to Roman-Catholicism as

A question like this gets easily fogged up because of the intro to Catholicism. Intro that term and many hardcore Christians will cry FALSE or HERETIC.

I think it boils down to this. Find out what this ex evangelical pastor believes about his salvation, not about the church,but about his salvation and you will find your answer. Catholicism tends to create fuzzy lines in these kinds of situations.





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John

 2014/5/22 8:36Profile









 Re: Would you consider an ex-evangelical pastor who converted to Roman-Catholicism as

in love, this is the kind of hypothetical what if question, that only serves as the genesis for a potentially ugly divisive cyber scum, edifying nobody, and bringing reproach to the forum.

there is discussion, and then there is bait, this is the latter. Religious "opinions" have been the wellspring of rivers of blood for centuries.

 2014/5/22 9:55
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

With all due respect: My intention with the question is sincere and I did not post it in order to condemn catholics as such. I'm just asking for the opinions of others in the forum of what they think when it comes to evangelicals who crosses the Tiber.

Sincerely Magnus


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Magnus Nordlund

 2014/5/22 10:20Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Mangan

Edit: I withdraw my question. After praying on this I have to say this isn't a thread I feel led to take part in right now.


God bless
maryjane

 2014/5/22 10:42Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 536
America's Flyover Country

 Re:

With all due respect, why don't you just ask Ulf himself?

There are far to many individual variables in why any particular person makes such life decisions. There is no way a person could know that other persons heart without being personally acquainted with them, reading or hearing what they specifically say, or asking them directly. You certainly won't get an accurate idea about what happened with Ulf by asking a forum predominately used by Canadians and Americans. imho.

As a personal matter I don't have any way to understand the decision to go back to Rome. I minister in a community that, according to the 2010 census, reports themselves to be 98% practicing Catholic. I just received a letter from the district verifying that information. I am told it is the highest catholic concentration outside the Vatican. As a rule I have seen a great deal of damage done by the Catholic "faith". I see it destroying people beyond measure every week. However, there are a few (Very, very few!) shining lights of born again believers within its darkness. I think the ones I have seen that stayed within the Catholic church after a true born again experience, or who swam the Tiber to return, did so to bring light to others within that darkness. Most do not make it and eventually are dragged back into the superstition and idolatry. However, some aren't and are much like missionaries in a Muslim world ... except it is the Catholic world.

That being said, I don't understand the decision to swim the Tiber at all. However, each circumstance is totally different and we can't throw all of them into the same bag and judge them identically. Each person would have to be judged on their unique set of circumstances. That is why I suggest that the only way to get an answer for your question is from the guy who actually did it.

Ultimately only Ulf knows for certain why he has made the decisions he has. Ultimately only Ulf knows for certain if he truly heard from God or not. Guys and girls reading Sermon Index forums from North America have no idea what God has or has not spoken to him or what is in his heart.....although several think they do.

 2014/5/22 10:44Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Solomon, did I mention Ulf? My question was general and I assume that there are US and Canadian counterparts. I think everyone here would be familiar with Scott Hahn.

Magnus


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Magnus Nordlund

 2014/5/22 10:51Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

I would consider anyone - Catholic or Protestant - who is not genuinely born-again of the Holy Spirit to be unsaved. A better question might therefore be: "Can a born-again child of God convert to Roman Cathlolicism?"

There is no clear, objective answer to this -- just opinions.


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Paul Frederick West

 2014/5/22 11:12Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 536
America's Flyover Country

 Re:

Hello Mangus -

You stated

Quote:
Solomon, did I mention Ulf? My question was general and I assume that there are US and Canadian counterparts. I think everyone here would be familiar with Scott Hahn.



No, you did not mention Ulf by name. However, he was in your thinking on the topic wasn't he?

It would seem that the things I wrote apply to anyone. Ulf, Scott Hahn, or anyone else.

I stated
Quote:
There are far to many individual variables in why any particular person makes such life decisions. There is no way a person could know that other persons heart without being personally acquainted with them, reading or hearing what they specifically say, or asking them directly.



and

Quote:
I don't understand the decision to swim the Tiber at all. However, each circumstance is totally different and we can't throw all of them into the same bag and judge them identically. Each person would have to be judged on their unique set of circumstances. That is why I suggest that the only way to get an answer for your question is from the guy who actually did it.



It seems to me that is true whether you are talking about Ulf, Scott Hahn, or anyone else on the planet that makes the decisions they have.

Your original question stated
Quote:
Would you consider an ex-evangelical pastor who converted to Roman-Catholicism as saved? Would you call him a brother in the faith or an apostate?



You are asking people to give their opinions and judgements upon a persons eternal life or eternal damnation. These opinions would be from people who are in absolute and total ignorance of the individuals they are passing eternal internet judgements on. You are further asking for that opinion based upon nothing other than that they apparently "converted to Catholicism". There is no way people should be dishing out opinions about such things concerning people they know absolutely nothing about .... no matter who it is. Thus my thoughts about you only being able to get the actual truth from the person who made that decision. Anything else will consist of nothing but gossip , speculation, and opinions.

Hopefully that clarifies what I intended. These thoughts would apply to anyone. However, it would seem apparent that Ulf would be one in the forefront of your thinking. If not I apologize for assuming that. However, the thoughts would apply to whomever was being considered... Ulf, Scott Hahn,or any person it might be.

 2014/5/22 11:14Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Solomon! My question is general and hypothetical. I'm not asking people to judge certain individuals.
I'm just asking if one would consider a former evangelical pastor converting to Roman Catholicsm and accepting all its teachings on the sacraments (and in particular the eucharist) and so forth as saved?

To be sure only God knows who is saved.

Magnus


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Magnus Nordlund

 2014/5/22 11:34Profile





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