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 Re:

Quote:
First, i do not know how you conclude that the RCC is the 'Great Whore'. Second, God does not hate anyone. People hate...and that's exactly what i'm concerned about. Sometimes we almost sound as though we want people to go to Hell - heaven forbid!! God is LOVE.



First of all, Stephen, I did not say that God hated anyone... I said He hates the Great Whore, which is described in Revelation 17. The Great Whore is an institution.

I would appreciate it if you wouldnt put words in my mouth. :-)

I have a righteous hatred for the Catholic Church, as should any Bible believing Christian... but I do not hate Catholics. Our next door neighbors are Catholics, and they are some of our best friends. One of their sons is the same age as my oldest son... and their son spends so much time at our house he accidentally called my wife "mom" last weekend. So lets put that misunderstanding aside.

As for Revelation 17... lets examine it. By the way, I'm teaching a series on this right now, so I'm brushed up on it pretty good at the moment...

Verse by verse...

Rev 17:1 [i]And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:[/i]

John Wesley comments: That sitteth as a queen - In pomp, power, ease, and luxury.

Thats an interesting clarification Wesley makes. Everyone in the world has now had a chance to see the riches and luxery of the Vatican. This description of the whore is clarified later in the chapter - Krispy

Rev 17:2 [i]With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.[/i]

Kings of the earth... even our own President, George W. Bush knelt before the body of the Pope last week on international TV. So did almost all of the leaders of the nations of the world - Krispy

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary say: It cannot be pagan Rome, but papal Rome, if a particular seat of error be meant, but I incline to think that the judgment (Rev_18:2) and the spiritual fornication (Rev_18:3), though finding their culmination in Rome, are not restricted to it, but comprise the whole apostate Church, Roman, Greek, and even Protestant, so far as it has been seduced from its “first love” (Rev_2:4) to Christ, the heavenly Bridegroom, and given its affections to worldly pomps and idols.

Rev 17:3 [i]So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.[/i]

Mary - Co-redeemer with Christ: blasphemy! Pope is the Vicar of Christ: blasphemy! The eucharist becomes the actual flesh and blood of Christ: blasphemy! The mass is the re-sacrificing of Christ: blasphemy! Calling a priest Father when our only father is God, and Jesus commands us to call no man "Father": blasphemy!

Rev 17:4 [i]And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:[/i]

Notice all the scarlet robes and purple robes at the funeral of the Pope? Ever notice that cardinals wear scarlet? Decked with gold... ever been to the Vatican? Just about everything is decked with gold & precious stones. Golden cup.... golden cups are used all the time in masses.

Rev 17:5 [i]And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.[/i]

The Roman Catholic Church calls itself the Mother of all Churches in the world. It [b]is[/b] the mother ... of all [b]apostate[/b] churches.

Rev 17:6 [i]And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.[/i]

Blood of the saints... blood of the martyrs of Jesus. No entity in the last 2,000 years can fit this description other than the Roman Catholic Church. Read Foxes Book of Martyrs if you want to find out how the Catholic Church persecuted and murdered Bible believing Christians. When you get to heaven, sit down and have a long talk with William Tyndale.

Rev 17:7 [i]And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. [/i]

OK, here is where scripture interprets scripture... and the identity really becomes clear...

Rev 17:8 [i]The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. [/i]

This is obviously describing the anti-Christ...

Rev 17:9 [i]And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.[/i]

Seven mountains... this is a geographical location. The city of Rome (where the Vatican is located) is called "The City of Seven Hills". Go there sometime and pick up tourist pamphlets... thats what it is called. Now, the city of Rome today really is not a world leader. But what is? [b]The Vatican[/b]. Anyone who doubts this has been asleep for the last month.

Rev 17:10,11 [i]And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.[/i]

John Wesley throws some dates into his interpretation of this verse... altho I may or may not agree 100%, the history he brings to the table is very very interesting to mull over... check this out:

"And they are seven kings - Anciently there were royal palaces on all the seven Roman bills. These were the Palatine, Capitoline, Coelian, Exquiline, Viminal, Quirinal, Aventine hills. But the prophecy respects the seven hills at the time of the beast, when the Palatine was deserted and the Vatican in use. Not that the seven heads mean hills distinct from kings; but they have a compound meaning, implying both together. Perhaps the first head of the beast is the Coelian hill, and on it the Lateran, with Gregory VII. and his successors; the second, the Vatican with the church of St. Peter, chosen by Boniface VIII. the third, the Quirinal, with the church of St. Mark, and the Quirinal palace built by Paul II. and the fourth, the Exquiline hill, with the temple of St. Maria Maggiore, where Paul V. reigned. The fifth will be added hereafter. Accordingly, in the papal register, four periods are observable since Gregory VII. In the first almost all the bulls made in the city are dated in the Lateran; in the second, at St. Peter's; in the third, at St. Mark's, or in the Quirinal; in the fourth, at St. Maria Maggiore. But no fifth, sixth, or seventh hill has yet been the residence of any Pope. Not that the hill was deserted, when another was made the papal residence; but a new one was added to the other sacred palaces. Perhaps the times hitherto mentioned might be fixed thus: 1058 Wings are given to the woman. 1077 The beast ascends out of the sea. 1143 The forty - two months begin. 1810 The forty - two months end. 1832 The beast ascends out of the bottomless pit. 1836 The beast finally overthrown."

Rev 17:12 [i]And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.[/i]

It seems that these ten kings or kingdoms, are to be contemporaries with the beast in its last or eighth form, namely, Antichrist. They rule for a short time... probably in the first half of the time of tribulation.

Rev 17:13 [i]These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.[/i]

This group of leaders give their power over to the beast... and since I believe the Whore is the RCC, then I can see the leaders of the Vatican handing over the reigns of the Catholic Church to the anti-Christ.

Rev 17:14 [i]These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.[/i]

Self explanatory...

Rev 17:15 [i]And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. [/i]

Everywhere you go in this world you will find a Roman Catholic Church... everywhere. And this is evident by the fact that leaders from almost every nation on the face of the earth showed up last week at the Pope's funeral.

Rev 17:16 [i]And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.[/i]

OH ... there is that word [b]HATE[/b]! Here is what John Gill's commentary says:

"these shall hate the whore; her principles and sentiments, her doctrines, which are doctrines of devils, her wicked practices, her idolatries, adulteries, murders, and thefts; they will repent of their fornications with her, and cease from them; their love will be turned to hatred, and the latter will be greater than ever the former was, like Amnon's to Tamar; and as it usually is with men towards harlots, when they see their follies, and how they have been deceived and abused by them:"

Thats exactly what I was explaining at the beginning of this post...

Also, note the verse ends with "burn with fire"... in other words hell.

Rev 17:17 [i]For God hath put in their hearts to fulfill his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. [/i]

self-explanatory...

Rev 17:18 [i]And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.[/i]

Great city... what other city has reigned over all the earth? Rome.

What city is no longer a world power, but [b]does[/b] play home to the headquarters of the world's largest [b]false[/b] religion? Rome.

In what city did the leaders of almost all nations of the world come to in order to [i]bend their knees[/i] before the dead leader of the world's largest false religion?

Not Rome... but [b][size=small][color=FF3300]Vatican[/color][/size][/b] [u][i][b][size=small][color=FF3300]CITY[/color][/size][/b][/i][/u]

The entire chapter of Revelation 17 is describing the Roman Catholic Church as the Great Whore.

And that, Stephen is how I "conclude" that the RCC is the Whore. And there are some pretty good theologians who have written books on this... so I'm in pretty good company.

Krispy

 2005/4/16 20:36









 Re: Hate and Love

Steven

Don't be offended by all this negative posts you are reading. The truth of the matter is that those who posted opposing RCC have done thier homework, it is not that they hate the RCC, they hate what she stands for.

That is what you need to seperate in your own mind what is being projected. Krispy doesn't hate the people that attend the RCC, No, he pities them, he feels sorry that they are caught up in an institution that does not provide everlasting Gospel of "the just shall live by faith".

This is simply not taught, and that is what Krispy is trying to convey to you. He is not presenting hate.

The homosexual community believe that Christians hate them, why? because the Bible says what they are doing is wrong. By telling them the truth, does it mean that we hate them? God forbid!

The same thing is being presented here, because we are telling the truth does it mean that we hate those who are caught up in the RCC? God forbid!

It would benefit you greatly if you take the time and read the RCC doctrine and compare it with scripture.

And while you are doing that read the history of the reformation and what took place before Martin Luther came on the scene, how the RCC persecuted the Church, how she tortured, killed thousands under her authority. Read how William Tyndale the first to translate the bible into English how he was hunted down by the RCC and killed for a desire to bring light to the common man. 85% of his translation has been inducted into the King James Version, as a testimony to those who persecuted him that his work remains to this day.

Pope John apologized to the protestant churches that these atrocities took place, but if you were to resurrect the popes who committed those crimes do you think they would have a change of heart? I seriously do not think so.

Karl

 2005/4/16 21:27
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The entire chapter of Revelation 17 is describing the Roman Catholic Church as the Great Whore.



I have studied in depth how after the Catholic Church (It was just "the Church" in those days) headed west from Jerusalem in the late first and early second century it opened itself up to all sorts of madness. It truly is a disturbing mixture of paganism and Christianity. You can take a look at some of the research here if you wish:



[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1976]The Church Heads West (Part I)[/url]


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/4/16 21:33Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: concern or misguided hatred?

Hi Stephen,

Just a couple of things. Up to the point of your response didn't see anything prior that could be construed as hate, what of the response from the ex-Catholic, maybe 'hate' towards the system...But that is really besides the point.

Was raised as a Catholic and frankly the vast majority of regular church goers would not even know what the church believes in many of it's core doctrines that we would have much dispute with. I certainly didn't. It wasn't until many years later that I was stunned to find out so many of these things.

Of course neither did I learn Who Jesus really was and what that meant. I learned a little bit [i]about[/i] Him, but certainly and I believe this is really the heart of the matter and of a serious and grave reflection;

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, [b]I never knew you[/b]: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

And just as well;

Joh 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

No one.

Act 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
Act 4:11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
Act 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

No 'other'.

Quote:
First, i do not know how you conclude that the RCC is the 'Great Whore'. Second, God does not hate anyone. People hate...and that's exactly what i'm concerned about. Sometimes we almost sound as though we want people to go to Hell - heaven forbid!! God is LOVE.



First, I would agree somewhat, possible? Certainly... but I don't know.

A good place to interject this here. A tremendous job on Church history was done by Edgar F. Parkyns. Here is a thread with links to the series. This should be a must hear series in my estimation, just an incredible job on not only history but eschatology as well. A different look than what is on the current popular menu.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2411&forum=42&post_id=&refresh=Go]Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 Sessions[/url]

Secondly, though we have been around this topic before that would be a misunderstanding to say that God does not hate, the difference is in what we tend to think of with this word and what it would mean from His perspective.

Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers1 upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate[b]8130[/b] me;
Exo 20:6 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

[b]H8130[/b]
שׂנא
śânê'
saw-nay'
A primitive root; to hate (personally): - enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, X utterly.

Psa 97:10 Ye that love the LORD, hate8130 evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.

Psa 139:22 I hate8130 them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.

Pro 6:16 These six things doth the LORD hate8130: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
Pro 6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Pro 6:18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
Pro 6:19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

Isa 61:8 For I the LORD love judgment, I hate8130 robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.

This is just the tip of the iceberg. The fear of the Lord is almost practically gone from our modern day thinking.

Noah's ark and then the door was closed.
Soddom and Gommorah.

Maybe hate isn't what should be of concern;

Deu 9:7 Remember, and forget not, how thou provokedst the LORD thy God to wrath in the wilderness: from the day that thou didst depart out of the land of Egypt, until ye came unto this place, ye have been rebellious against the LORD.

Exo 32:9 And the LORD said unto Moses, I have seen this people, and, behold, it is a stiffnecked people:
Exo 32:10 Now therefore let me alone, that my wrath may wax hot against them, and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee a great nation.
Exo 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why doth thy wrath wax hot against thy people, which thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?

Eze 22:31 Therefore have I poured out mine indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of my wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord GOD.


Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

Joh 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Hard to express sentiment here, am not wound up in the least personally, but we cannot divorce God's Holiness, Righteousness and Justice from His love. He is altogether [i]other[/i] than we are.

Phi 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/4/16 21:36Profile









 Re:

I have to agree with Stephen on this. There is a difference between being concerned and being hateful. I don't think it's accurate to assume that Revelation 17 is talking about the RCC. That's like trying to point a finger to who the anti-christ is and what the date of the second coming is. It's all skepticism. I'm also amazed that it was spoken on here that the Pope is in hell. You almost sound glad about it. Ultimately none of us know the Popes heart nor do we know what his relationship with Christ was like.

 2005/4/16 22:43









 Re:

Quote:
There is a difference between being concerned and being hateful.



If you're referring to my posts, please show me where I have been hateful.

Quote:
I don't think it's accurate to assume that Revelation 17 is talking about the RCC. That's like trying to point a finger to who the anti-christ is and what the date of the second coming is. It's all skepticism.



I guess historical evidence and geographical evidence means nothing?

Quote:
I'm also amazed that it was spoken on here that the Pope is in hell. You almost sound glad about it. Ultimately none of us know the Popes heart nor do we know what his relationship with Christ was like.



Sounds glad that he's in hell? Thats an interesting statement since you've never heard the sound of my voice. You've only read my words and read what you wanted to read into it. I take no joy in anyone going to hell.

I dont know the Pope's heart, but I do know his words, and in his last will and testament which you can read online shows that his faith was in Mary and the Catholic Church. He did not once profess faith in God's grace and mercy alone... not once. Therefore, he was an unsaved man.

Thats not hateful... it's a statement of fact. Now, you can either believe the Bible, or not. I'm merely repeating the Bible.

Sentimental feelings about a good humantarian does not mean he went to heaven.

Krispy

 2005/4/17 5:41









 Re:

For those who think I am spewing hatred...

Let me tell you what love is. Love is sounding a warning, and standing in the way of people being deceived into hell.

I could stand back and say nothing and be liked by everyone. But I know in my heart that what I've written here is truth.

If I knew a road was flooded and if people drive down it they will drown... and I say nothing... then I do not have love, I do not have concern... and I have the blood of innocent people on my hands.

No, I will sound a warning. If to some it is misunderstood as hatred... so be it. God knows my heart, and I am only concerned about what He thinks.

By the way... dont think for a minute that calling me "hateful" when thats not what I'm being doesnt bother my heart. It does. I'm thick skinned, but sometimes things do bother me.

... but I will not let that stop me from speaking the truth.

Krispy

 2005/4/17 5:46
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
I have to agree with Stephen on this. There is a difference between being concerned and being hateful. I don't think it's accurate to assume that Revelation 17 is talking about the RCC. That's like trying to point a finger to who the anti-christ is and what the date of the second coming is. It's all skepticism. I'm also amazed that it was spoken on here that the Pope is in hell. You almost sound glad about it. Ultimately none of us know the Popes heart nor do we know what his relationship with Christ was like.



When Christ spoke against those who opposed God He did not speak to them with kind words, He was harsh. We should also take on the same attitude as it pertains to speaking out against false doctrine, sin and blasphemies against God. Souls depend on it and so there can be no nicey-nicey. As for the assumption that the great whore refers to the rcc, many people have had that revelation from God and have had it confirmed by others being shown the same thing. It's not coincidence that the church is so powerful as to make kings lie in its bed of spiritual fornication or many other saints for that matter, or that many people were slaughtered by this church, or even that Rome itslf is built on 7 hills. From it will come the foundations of the 1 religion for the world, any dissenters from that will find the world an ugly place at that time.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/17 12:36Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re:Interfaith Day of Prayer for Peace

[img]http://www.usccb.org/pope/gallery/group.jpg[/img]
[i]At the Interfaith Day of Prayer for Peace, Assisi, 1986, the Pope stands with, from left: Bishop Gabriel of Palmyra, representative of the Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Antioch, Archbishop of Canterbury Robert Runcie, Archbishop Methodios of Thyateria/Great Britian and representative of the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, the Dalai Lama, the Venerable Maha Ghosananda, the Venerable Eui-Hyun Seo of Korea, and the Venerable Etai Yamada of Japan. [/i]

 2005/4/17 13:45Profile
Tears_of_joy
Member



Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554


 Re: THE POPE’S STRANGE PRAYER MEETING

[img]http://kkp.catholic.org.hk/images/3015/glhead.jpg[/img]

The article below is taken from:[url=http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/popesstrange.htm]here[/url]
As we dig in the ecumenical walls for 1986 the most striking event we see is the Day of Prayer for World Peace. Never before in Christian history has there been a clearer fulfillment of the New Testament prophecies of the great falling away from the faith and of the formation of the Harlot one-world religion. Indeed, in this now famous peace meeting we see that the hour is very, very late, brethren.

In the center of this amazing event we see a rather short, but cheerful man, who claims to be the sole successor to the Apostle Peter and the Head of all Christians. Gathered around Peter’s supposed successor are all sorts of leaders of other religions--religions Peter considered heathen and godless. What are these men and women doing? Why, they have come together, they say, to pray to their gods for world peace!

The now famous meeting which was held in Assisi, Italy, in October, 1986, was first announced by John Paul II January 25 of that year. The announcement was made during a Mass in Rome marking the end of the Christian Unity Week. The official Vatican newspaper reports the pope’s words on the occasion of the announcement:

"‘Peace within the Church and peace with all mankind.’ The words of Pope Gregory VII are particularly appropriate in this year 1986, which the United Nations Organization has proclaimed as the International Year of Peace. ... In regard to this matter, I wish to announce on this solemn occasion that I am initiating opportune consultations with the leaders, not only of the various Christian Churches and communions, but also of the other religions of the world, to organize with them a special meeting of prayer for peace, in the city of Assisi ... The date and de tails of this meeting will be decided as soon as possible" ("Pope’s Announcement in St. Paul’s Basilica: Meeting of Prayer for Peace with all Religious Leaders," L’osservatore Romano, 10 February 1986, page 19).

It was, by the way, from this same location on Jan. 25, 1959, that the late Pope John XXIII announced his decision to convene Vatican Council II (RNS report of January 27, 1986).

WHO WAS THERE?

Altogether there were 160 participants at the prayer meeting for peace in Assisi, October 26, 1986 (Rocky Mountain News, Denver, Colorado, October 28, 1986). Let us note some of those who attended this affair:

The "Christian" leaders represented 32 denominations, whose adherents number 3.5 billion people, or 70 percent of the world’s population! This was certainly no small affair. And if someone complains that these leaders did not represent the people of their denominations and organizations, we respond with two questions: First, if the leaders who attended this abominable affair did not represent the people of the denominations and organizations they head, why were they chosen as leaders of such denominations? Secondly, if the people of these denominations and organizations considered the actions of these leaders apostate, why weren’t the leaders rebuked, discipled and put out from their churches, denominations and organizations? Silence and inactivity in the face of evil is as wicked as direct participation!

The "Christian" leaders came from many ecumenical organizations--The World Council of Churches, represented by its executive secretary and three of its seven presidents, the World YWCA, the World Alliance of YMCAs, Friends World Committee for Consultation, Mennonite World Conference, Reformed Ecumenical Synod, Baptist World Alliance, Disciples of Christ, World Alliance of Reformed Churches, Lutheran World Federation, Anglican Communion, Old Catholic Union of Utrecht, the Assyrian Church of the East, all Orthodox churches. Also invited were 15 Roman Catholic bishops, and leaders of six Roman Catholic Franciscan organizations (EPS, 26-31 October 1986, 86.10.121).

Among the "Christian" leaders present were--

John Paul II, head of Roman Catholicism
Robert Runcie, Archbishop of Canterbury, head of the worldwide Anglican and Episcopal denomination
Emilio Castro, head of the World Council of Churches Greek Orthodox
Archbishop Methodios of Thyateira and Great Britain, archbishop and delegate of Ecumenical Patriarch Dimitrios
Gunnar Stalsett, Executive Secretary of the Lutheran World Federation
Allan Boesak, South Africa’s anti-apartheid activist and president of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches
Metropolitan Filaret, head of Russian Orthodox Church
Mother Teresa, Roman Catholic nun
Susanna Telewona, a vice-president of the Lutheran World Federation
Nita Barrow and Marga Buhrig, two of the WCC presidents
Bernice Schrotenboer, representing her husband, the Reformed Evangelical Synod general secretary
Val Ferguson, general secretary of Friends World Committee for Consultation (Quakers)
Lydia Breen and Doreen Boyd, on the World YWCA staff in Geneva
Manuela Mattioli and Christiane Witmers, two Catholic Franciscan leaders

Also represented at the Day of Prayer for World Peace were leaders of 11 non-Christian religions: Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jews, Muslums, African and North American animists (who worship spirits and nature), Japanese Shintoists, fire-worshipping Zorastrians, Baha’i. The Dalai Lama, exiled Buddhist leader who is supposed to be the god-king of Tibet, was at the forefront of the activities, as was Elio Toaff, chief Jewish rabbi of Rome (EPS, 26-31 October 1986, 86.10.121). The Dalai-Lama and John Paul II have become close friends, and the Buddhist god-king was seated at the immediate left hand of the pope. It should be noted that all of these leaders worship false gods and are therefore breakers of the 1st commandment of God’s Holy Law--"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." (Exodus 20:3)

WHAT TRANSPIRED AT THE EVENT?

The events of the Day of Prayer for World Peace were divided into four main parts: First was the greeting by Pope John Paul II, who was the organizer and main leader of the program. The participants then moved to various places in the city for two hours of private prayers, after which they came back together and held prayers in the presence of one another. Finally, following a few other rituals for peace, there was a supper and the farewell address by the pope.

An interesting description of some of the strange events at Assisi last October is given in an Associated Press report:

"ASSISI, Italy--Chants, temple bells and pagan spells echoed around the Roman Catholic shrines of Assisi yesterday as Pope John Paul II and his 200 guests from the world’s 12 main religions prayed for world peace...

"The medicineman of the Crow Indians [spirit worshippers], Chief John Pretty-on-Top, offered to cast out evil spirits. Many came forward, among them a young Franciscan monk.

"In a chapel down the road, the head of the Zorastrian church in Bombay prayed before a fire that symbolized his God.

"Next door, six turbanned Sikhs--all Italian converts--sat chanting their prayers in the lotus position to gramophone music.

"At an old Roman temple, shoeless Moslems sat on prayer mats.

"The 14th Dalai Lama, exiled god-king of Tibet, headed the strong Buddhist contingent, mumbling sutras amid tinkling bells at the Basilica of St.

Peter.

"In the gardens outside, a Shinto sect called Tenrikyo, in black kimonos, swayed to temple music.

"African animists, their togas the envy of any designer, invoked the spirits of trees and plants to come to the aid of peace...

"The Pope made three speeches" (Gazette News Services, taken from AP, Chicago Tribune and reproduced in Christian Beacon, December 25, 1986, p. 7).

WHAT PRAYERS WERE SAID?

Examples of the kinds of prayers that were offered to the false gods are seen in the prayers of the animists from Africa and North America:

Two tribal animists from Africa intoned, "Almighty God, the Great Thumb we cannot evade in tying any knot, the Roaring Thunder that splits mighty trees, the All-Seeing Lord up on high who sees even the foot prints of an antelope on a rock mass here on earth... you are the cornerstone of peace." Smoking a ceremonial peace pipe, John Pretty-on-Top, a Crow Indian medicine man from Montana in full-feathered headress, recited, "O Great Spirit, I raise my pipe to you, to your messengers the four winds, and to mother earth, who provides for your children... I pray that you bring peace to all my brothers and sisters of this world" ("A Summit for Peace in Assisi," Time, November 10, 1986, pp. 78-79).

There you have it--the report of one of the most abominable event that has ever taken place on this earth since the rebellion of Adam and Eve. This was an event more abominable than the building of the Tower of Babel. At least there is no record that the leaders of that crowd were claiming to be God’s children. Further, this was more abominable than the formation of the Roman Catholic, Greek Orthodox and other false denominational systems. At least these systems claim to be Christian. But in this Day of Prayer for World Peace we have the coming together of those claiming to be followers of Jesus Christ with those who boldly profess that Jesus Christ is not the only God and Savior, who boldly claim that the God of the Bible is not the only true God. What an infamous day!

AN HOUR OF GREAT DARKNESS

This Day of Prayer for World Peace at Assisi was a day of great spiritual darkness. The evidence of that darkness we have seen in the event itself.

The prophecy that it would be a day of darkness was given in the speech January 25, 1986, when John Paul II announced the event:

"On 25 January, the closing day of the Week of Prayer for Christian Unity, John Paul II celebrated Mass in St. Paul’s Outside the Walls in the presence of representatives of other Christian Churches and religious communities. The following is a translation of his homily delivered in Italian. ‘A great light from heaven suddenly shone about me’ (Acts 22:6)... On this path of prayer and service trodden together by brothers of different ecclesial communities, may we be guided effectively and clearly by the light that won over Paul, and may we be urged onwards by the intercession and example of the saints. Let us invoke the protection of Paul, and also of a Pope who lived here as monk and abbot, Gregory VII, Hildebrand of Soana" (EPS, 26-31 October 1986, 86.10.121).

Though the pope of Rome called this event a day of light, we see that it was a day of darkness by the very fact that he invoked the prayers of the dead, something the Bible forbids. Nowhere in Scripture do we see God’s people praying to the dead. That One Name given whereby we come unto God in prayer is Jesus Christ! So we see in the Pope’s announcement, that this would be a day of darkness.

Finally, we know this was a day of darkness because the prayers for peace were not answered. Heaven was brass. God’s ear was closed to the abominations of that day. The nations have not laid down their arms. The spiritual darkness under which the event at Assisi was held is seen in the fact that the religious leaders gathered there completely ignored God’s warning in 1 Thessalonians 5 --"For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape."

What a dark day!

Oh yes, in conclusion we must mention the fact that this was also the day of what we consider to have been--

THE YEAR’S BIGGEST LIE

The following was reported in the World Council’s Ecumenical Press Service, 26-31 October 1986:

"As had the pope in his welcome, Roger Cardinal Etchegary, president of the Pontifical Commission for Justice and Peace, stressed in opening the series of acts of prayer in the square that there was to be no mixing of religions. ‘We have come together,’ he said, ‘in complete faithfulness to our own religious traditions, well aware of the identity of each of our own faith commitments. We are here together without any trace of syncretism’" (EPS, 26-30 October 1986, 86.10.121).

It is appropriate, I suppose, that the biggest lie of the year accompanied the most spiritually abominable event of the year. After bringing together representatives of most of the world’s religions, after calling one another brothers and sisters, after praying together or at least respecting one another’s prayers and rituals, after marching together in a peace march, making speeches to one another, supping together--after such unadulterated yoking together of Christians with non-Christians, the claim was made that "We are here together without any trace of syncretism." Oh, my, what a lie!

I hope we can cause our readers to understand that false teachers do lie.

Some Christians cannot seem to believe that men who appear to be so good, so holy, so religious--could speak lies. But the Bible repeatedly warns that false teachers are liars, deceivers, wolves in sheep’s’ clothing, those who creep in unawares, those whose "good words and fair speeches’ are designed purposely to deceive the hearts of the simple. False and disobedient Christians lie.

Friends, if this event at Assisi was not syncretism in action, there is no syncretism. If this event at Assisi was not open rebellion to the Word of God, there is no rebellion. The fact is that the good words and fair speeches of these rebels do not deceive us. This event was perhaps the greatest act of syncretism and rebellion toward Scripture in church history. If the Christian leaders participating in this event had been faithful to God they would have done the following things:

1. If they were not syncretistic and rebellious they would not have come together in close fellowship and spiritual harmony with those who follow and serve false gods. Keep in mind that these men sat together, worshipped together, spoke to one another on the same spiritual theme, marched together, performed rituals together, supped together. Yet the Bible commands:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (2 Corinthians 6:14-17).

2. If they were not syncretistic and rebellious they would have rebuked the false, heathen ways of the non-Christian leaders and would have preached to them the one, true Gospel of salvation through the Blood of Jesus Christ.

This, of course, would have spoiled the man-made harmony of the event and was not done. Another reason is that the Christian leaders present were themselves apostate and do not believe in the Gospel of the Blood Atonement of Christ. These Christians leaders do not know how one is born again and accept anyone as a Christian who has been baptized or confirmed or who makes any sort of feeble claim to be a Christian. The writings, speeches and actions of the World Council of Churches, John Paul II, Mother Teresa, the WCC presidents and others present make it clear that they are not convinced the non-Christian is lost. This is why they could come together in so happy and peaceful fellowship with the heathen leaders.

3. If they were not syncretistic and rebellious they would not have acknowledged the prayers of the heathen. It is true that during part of the event the prayers were held privately in separate places. But during another part of the event, the prayers and rituals were performed in the presence of one another. John Paul II and Emilio Castro watched as the North American spirit-worshipper and the African nature-worshippers danced and spoke the foolish prayers we have printed above. The Christian leaders present accepted such unscriptural prayers as efficacious. The very fact that they believed that somehow the prayers of these heathen could help bring world peace proves that they believed the true God of Heaven would hear and answer the prayers of Christian and non-Christian alike.

Further, John Paul II affirmed that he believed the prayers of the heathen religious leaders would be effective and heard by God. Consider what he said about these non-Christian prayers:

"It is therefore urgent that an invocation rise in chorus, and with insistence, from the earth toward heaven, to ask the Omnipotent One, in whose hands lies the destiny of the world, for the great gift of peace," he said. (The Tidings, official Roman Catholic newspaper of the Los Angeles diocese, April 11, 1986, p.1)

The pope emphasized the spiritual nature of the meeting by saying that the convening of such diverse groups, "Should constitute a coming together of a vast movement of reflecting and prayer, in which followers of EVERY RELIGIOUS FAITH should feel themselves involved" (Foundation, May-June 1986, page 18; The Tidings, official Roman Catholic newspaper of the Los Angeles diocese, April 11, 1986, p. 1).

I repeat, if this meeting at Assisi was not syncretistic, the word should be removed from our dictionaries. If the Christian leaders involved are not rebels against God’s Word, the very concept of apostasy is a myth.

[b]The hour is very, very late, my friends. Are you saved? Do you know that your sins are forgiven and that you have eternal life through the Blood of Christ? Are you then living an obedient life for Christ? Are you scripturally baptized by immersion as a picture of Christ’s death, burial and resurrection? Are you a faithful member of a sound New Testament local church? Are you busy serving God and waiting for Christ’s return? Are you separated from the apostasy of these last days? I trust the answer is yes.[/b]

Jesus Christ warned, "Watch, therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." The hour, obviously, is late.

 2005/4/17 13:52Profile





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