_________________
Bill

"This is true. I was there at the early stage and deep repentance was THE ONLY message. I believe it changed later on when all the commercialization was occurring turning it into a machine. You definitely cannot throw out everything that happened there at the Brownsville Assembly of God"

Isn't this what we mean by fruit? The fruit was bad. It doesn't matter how good it started to look. The fruit was bad. Those men who were leading produced bad fruit.

It is absolutely nonsensical to say things like, "It started out as a great move of God, but then it fell apart."

Jesus said that he appointed us to bear fruit and that our fruit would remain. That is exactly why Jesus said what he did about false prophets when he said, "you will know a tree by its fruit."

We've become so indoctrinated with tolerance that everyone says, "don't throw the baby out with the bath water." That isn't in the scriptures. Jesus said the opposite. He said you would know a tree by it's fruits. It is a bad tree, because it produced bad fruit. End of story.

Hi havok20x,

Do you believe any of the revivals of the past where genuine ?

As far as I am aware they all fizzled out and many seemed to have disturbing endings.

Lets be slow to judge. Where there is true wheat to be found, the enemy is quick to sow in the tares.

Havok20x,

I disagree with you that the fruit was bad
that came out of the Brownsville Revival.

For one thing, you had strong, mature men
that were overseeing this revival. John
Kilpatrick, Steve Hill, and Michael Brown
were the main leaders.

. Thousands of
souls were saved, many backsliders
returned to The Lord, the saints were
refreshed, and many ministries were birthed
out of that move of God.

Repentance was the main message that
came forth from Steve Hill night after night.

I remember standing in line outside the
church before a service having fellowship
with a couple from England. I could sense
the presence of God outside the church.
The meetings were so refreshing.

Mike

_________________
Mike

Brethren in any movement of God the enemy will counterfeit the good thing that God is doing. This occurred during the Jesus movement. And if God be pleased to send another movement of the Spirit, Old Slewfoot, as Bill calls him, will counterfeit what God is doing.

What we need to do its be vigilant and through the guidance of the Holy Spirit expose the counterfeit. And rejoice in the true fruit of revival. In other words not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

Bearnaster.

Havok--

It might be helpful if you would clarify what you mean because you SEEM to be saying that if ANY bad fruit comes out of a revival then the whole revival was false or not of God.

But even revivals in the early church had some bad fruit. I suspect some of the 3000 men that were saved on the day of Pentecost went on to become some of the Judaizers that Paul railed against. But surely you would not say that Peter's sermon was not of God... at least I hope you wouldn't say that.

_________________
Todd

Well I can only speak for the UK, but the whole Toronto thing was a watershed moment for the Petecostal/Charismatic churches here. When that spirit started to come into the churches in the UK there were major divisions between those who rejected this false spirit and those that embraced it. The results for most of the churches that embraced Toronto was that a large number of folk left their church and new fellowships and churches started with more discernment about spiritual gifts and greater prominence to the word of God. Those churches that embraced Toronto have today become totally apostate.

Regarding the comment about 25% God and 75% error, well how would you like to drink something that had 75% poison to get the 25% good stuff. I don't believe God said that in the meaning of it is good that there is 25%. It goes against His very word and nature. Didn't Jesus say if we're even just luke warm He will vomit us up!

I agree with ROR on this.

_________________
Dave

TMK, The bible says 3000 souls were saved. It didn't say how many made a profession. And even if it was talking about 3000 making a profession, speculation doesn't make you right and doesn't validate your point.

Also, you do not understand what fruit is. I am not talking about individual impacts on people and fantastic experiences. I am talking about the entire thing not conforming and in any way, other than a smattering of labels or biblical-sounding jargon, to the pattern and teachings of the scriptures.

The Word-of-Faith movement is definitely heretical, not scripturally based, and just because the enemy successfully included even more christianese in the events means nothing.

The manifestations of the "Spirit" that were happening there have nothing to do with anything in Scripture. The great outpourings of the Spirit shown in Scriptures never looked like that--and they are the only examples we have to base a comparison on that we KNOW are true. All scripture is useful for doctrine. Experience must conform to the Scriptures.

We do need revival. And yes, the enemy can easily come in and cause problems. But that doesn't mean the revival is a failure. Look at Edwards. He helped make faithful converts who knew the Lord and followed him. Look at the reformation and how many people came to know the Lord then and how God was exalted. I am not saying because everyone didn't stay jam-up revived that it was a failure; I don't believe it was a failure at all. By the grace of God what Edwards and the reformers did is still producing fruit to this day, but that is because it wasn't based on fantastic manifestations of the Spirit, but on truth, scripture, and the glory of God in Jesus Christ!

Now look at Pensacola--signs...wonders...spasmodic movements...holy ghost glue...etc, etc, etc. Where's the glory of God? Where are those who are seeking the Lord?

No where.

Just because they preach repentance doesn't mean the people repent and turn to Jesus. They "repented" and turned to BAG and those men from whose mouths flowed rivers of unbiblical sewage. Those who come out of the pensacola revival espouse one thing--the pensacola revival. No, not the banner of Jesus Christ. They fight for manifestations and have trampled on the cross of Christ in order to make sure that everyone knows that the manifestations were legitimate. No one talks more of Jesus Christ and the glorious gospel. No. They speak signs and wonders and manifestations.

It is bad fruit.

But that is what Paul was telling Timothy--they no longer endure sound doctrine in this day.

Soooooo. What is a pure revival?

Bear :-)

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

And He said to me, “It is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son.



This is a pure revival.