We all know there is a war going on with Atheists using the Constitution to push prayer out schools and even out of city hall meetings. Something I have wondered is when did this practice of praying in the public square begin and why was it practiced in the first place? Especially in light of the government not putting one religious faith over another.

I would like to explore this myself but what are your thoughts on this is?

I am not sure where to begin to look into this.

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John

Our right to pray or not does not come from other people. Book of Daniel is a good example.

It isn't about our right to pray. It is about the origins of praying in the public square in early America and why it happened vs. how the Constitution is interpreted day that is allowing Atheists to kick prayer out of the public forum.

You are not going to take the book of Daniel to an Atheist, they will laugh at you but what if you took the origins of prayer in public in early America to show the foundations and why it happened against their interpretation of the Constitution?

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John

Got it!

First Amendment and in particular the Religion & Expression Clause

The original draft by Madison was:

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed" (Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789)

The Adopted form:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Regardless as to the form of words of the adopted form, the underlying sentiment and real purpose of the First Amendment may have been more in keeping with the original draft and not the adopted form itself. This appears to be a subliminal part of the rational of dissenters to the Christian faith.

The struggle was inevitable. So was the offence and so is the end of it. The United States is Constitutionally bound to disintegrate.

Just to elaborate my thinking a little further:

As far as I know all challenges to the First Amendment in the Courts, as far as Religion are concerned, have come about since a successful legal challenge by Madalyn Murray O'Hair in 1960 when she successfully exempted her son from participation in bible readings at his school. The rest is history.

One of the first things which came to my mind when I first started trying to understand some of the comments on this site nearly three years ago, led me to consider that believers in the USA somehow took the view that they had a right to impose the christian faith on everyone else through the public square. Whether this is as simple as saying it, I doubt very much, but I have no doubt from what I have read since that first thought, that the USA is predominately not inclined to the christian faith and so imposition breeds deep resentment. The backlash will be proportionate to the offence. Of course this is an impression and may not be fully true, in the sense that many believers would of course desire to see Godly living and a societal benefit from embracing righteousness. There are many nations where the church does not have a right to influence and yet men and women seek to live reasonably righteous lives as a matter of basic human desire.

The original draft by Maddison was a far better wording than the adopted one and, again in my view, would have made for a better outcome.

The origin of praying in the public square came from the founding motivation of our nation. The men who framed our government were men who recognized the role of God's providence in the very existence of our nation. Many of them were Christians as their writings testify. Most all were men who believed that the providential hand of God rested upon the United States. As a result, prayer was integral to the function of government in this nation.

Research the role of prayer in the first congress. These men held prayer meetings to ask for God's direction in the formation of the laws of this nation. It was understood that this was an inherently Christian nation founded upon the principles laid out in the Bible. Yet our fathers were tolerant of the religious preferences of others and guaranteed that they would be free to practice their religion without persecution.

Our nation was understood to be a Christian nation and our government was understood to be foundationally Judeo-Christian, so prayer in the public square was seen as normal, even requisite to good governance. Yet they intentionally wrote into our constitution a statement that forbade government to dictate to an individual citizen what religion they were forced to follow or forced not to follow. So, an understanding that we were a Christian nation governed by Biblical principle yet with the citizenry free to practice another religion if they so desired.

We have drifted so far from this original intent.

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Travis