Poster | Thread | proudpapa Member

Joined: 2012/5/13 Posts: 2936
| 1 cor ch 5:5 ? | | "To deliver such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."
What is your thought of the meaning of this verse ? |
| 2014/4/15 17:36 | Profile | TMK Member

Joined: 2012/2/8 Posts: 6650 NC, USA
| Re: 1 cor ch 5:5 ? | | I have always taken this to mean that sometimes a person really needs to be worked over- particularly by letting his sin takes its natural course, in order for him to come to his senses-- like the prodigal son-- and come to brokenness and repentance.
I think Paul is essentially telling the congregation to leave the sinner alone-- don't intervene- and let nature take its course.
Oswald Chambers talks about not being amateur providences in someone's life. We have a tendency to try to make things better for someone who the Lord is dealing with when in fact we are interfering with God's work in their life. Our role is to intercede as intercessors-- not interfere. _________________ Todd
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| 2014/4/15 20:13 | Profile |
| Re: 1 cor ch 5:5 ? | | I believe in a literal meaning. I am around people who are constantly tormented by demons. main causes: Drug use, rebellion, occult, etc
Its sad because I was in their shoes once, and I had no idea of what or why it was going on. I'm still on the road to healing, myself, but I can observe it happening in other people now with light on the subject
some verses on topic:
and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will. (2 Timothy 2:26 NASB)
No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. (2 Corinthians 11:14 NASB)
Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme. (1 Timothy 1:20 NASB)
(Even Paul had a demon that would humble him)
Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself! (2 Corinthians 12:7 NASB)
so that no advantage would be taken of us by Satan, for we are not ignorant of his schemes. (2 Corinthians 2:11 NASB)
Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, this he will also reap. For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. (Galatians 6:7-8 NASB)
to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (Acts 26:18 NASB)
For we wanted to come to you--I, Paul, more than once--and yet Satan hindered us. (1 Thessalonians 2:18 NASB)
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| 2014/4/15 21:45 | | MrBillPro Member

Joined: 2005/2/24 Posts: 3422 Texas
| Re: | | Noah, those are some good scriptures to ponder. _________________ Bill
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| 2014/4/15 22:01 | Profile |
| Re: | | a few more about "punishment":
"You shall not worship them or serve them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children, on the third and the fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing lovingkindness to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. (Exodus 20:5-6 NASB)
who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin; yet He will by no means leave the guilty unpunished, visiting the iniquity of fathers on the children and on the grandchildren to the third and fourth generations." (Exodus 34:7 NASB)
'The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.' (Numbers 14:18 NASB)
"Know therefore that the LORD your God, He is God, the faithful God, who keeps His covenant and His lovingkindness to a thousandth generation with those who love Him and keep His commandments; but repays those who hate Him to their faces, to destroy them; He will not delay with him who hates Him, He will repay him to his face. (Deuteronomy 7:9-10 NASB)
then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, (2 Peter 2:9 NASB)
I've come to the conclusion that although God does forgive iniquity, transgression and sin, he still makes the person "reap what they sow" so either they learn never to do it again, or otherwise perish.
This is not an easy subject. |
| 2014/4/15 22:47 | | proudpapa Member

Joined: 2012/5/13 Posts: 2936
| Re: 1 cor ch 5:5 ? | | Thank you for the replies,
Is there anyone with the impression that : "the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." might be referring to the spirit of the church instead of the spirit of the wicked man ?
what are your thoughts ?
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| 2014/4/15 23:23 | Profile | savannah Member

Joined: 2008/10/30 Posts: 2265
| Re: 1 Cor. 2 Cor. | |
"Is there anyone with the impression that : "the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." might be referring to the spirit of the church instead of the spirit of the wicked man?"
NAY!
2 Cor. 2:6-11 Enough to such is this punishment, which is by the majority. So that, on the contrary, you are rather to deal graciously and console, lest somehow such may be swallowed up by the more excessive sorrow. Wherefore I am entreating you to ratify your love to him. For to this end I also wrote, that I might know the proof of you, if you are obedient in all things. To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes I forgave it, in the person of Christ; Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.
May wisdom apply His Word.
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| 2014/4/16 7:20 | Profile | proudpapa Member

Joined: 2012/5/13 Posts: 2936
| Re: | | Hi savannah,
thank you for the reply,
I was aware that some people believe that 2 Cor. 2:6-11 is speaking specifically about 1 cor. 5 and the wicked man that had his fathers wife. but I am not sure that I am convinced of that. I am not totally opposed to it either, it is a good point.
A question for savannah and anyone else, what are your thoughts: Was this wicked man a trully born again brother whom fell into abominational sin and that by the destruction of his flesh he may be compelled to repent and then be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus ?
If he was a trully born again brother whom fell into abominational sin and the process of the destruction of his flesh was carried out to its fullness : unto death before he repented. Do you believe that he would still be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus ?
Or was he a false convert whom by the destruction of his flesh, might be afterwards pressed into a true regenerational state ?
What are your thoughts ?
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| 2014/4/16 10:16 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
A question for savannah and anyone else, what are your thoughts: Was this wicked man a trully born again brother whom fell into abominational sin and that by the destruction of his flesh he may be compelled to repent and then be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus ?
yes in my opinion, that seems like the goal of turning him over to Satan
Quote:
If he was a trully born again brother whom fell into abominational sin and the process of the destruction of his flesh was carried out to its fullness : unto death before he repented. Do you believe that he would still be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus ?
If I knew what day that was, I could think of something to say. Is it the First Resurrection and beginning of the Messianic Reign? Or 1000 years later at the Great White Throne Judgement of God, where all are resurrected? But my thoughts would have something to do with the possibility that NOT ALL those who go to Hades are cast into the lake of fire at the GWTJ. And also, I don't see how he could make it for the first resurrection if he didn't repent because the scriptures about those who are resurrected into the Messianic Period are the "Righteous" who served Christ wholeheartedly, were blameless, etc.
(edit: I assume that last part. scripture says:
Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. (Revelation 20:4 NASB) )
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| 2014/4/16 21:32 | | twayneb Member

Joined: 2009/4/5 Posts: 2256 Joplin, Missouri
| Re: | | Quote:
I was aware that some people believe that 2 Cor. 2:6-11 is speaking specifically about 1 cor. 5 and the wicked man that had his fathers wife. but I am not sure that I am convinced of that. I am not totally opposed to it either, it is a good point.
A question for savannah and anyone else, what are your thoughts: Was this wicked man a trully born again brother whom fell into abominational sin and that by the destruction of his flesh he may be compelled to repent and then be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus ?
If he was a trully born again brother whom fell into abominational sin and the process of the destruction of his flesh was carried out to its fullness : unto death before he repented. Do you believe that he would still be saved on the day of the Lord Jesus ?
Or was he a false convert whom by the destruction of his flesh, might be afterwards pressed into a true regenerational state ?
What are your thoughts ?
I agree with idea that 2 Cor. 2:6-11 is commentary on 1 Cor. 5. The context of chapter 5 verses 1-3 demand that, if not this man, the verses deal with some similar situation or situations in the church at Corinth. This really deals with church discipline and how to handle these situations.
Remember Jesus admonition. Mat 18:15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. Mat 18:17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
Now look at 1 Cor. 5. 1Co 5:4-7 (4) In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, (5) To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. (6) Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (7) Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
The church was not heeding Christ's admonition and was allowing this man to remain in fellowship despite his failure to repent. Paul tells them that failure to deal with this situation will result in harm to the body (a little leaven...). So, under Paul's leadership as apostolic oversight, the church was commanded to remove this man from the protective covering of the church. The turned him over to satan for the destruction of the flesh. They turned him out of the body so that the full consequence of his sin would be visited upon him. Now look at 2 Cor. Paul says, lest this man be totally swallowed up with sorrow, the body should forgive and restore this man to fellowship.
Whether 1 Cor. 5 speaks of this man specifically or of other men or women in the body who were committing fornication cannot be determined, but the relation of these incidents in Paul's first and then second letters is, I believe, good commentary on what Paul means in 1 Cor. 5.
_________________ Travis
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| 2014/4/19 9:45 | Profile |
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