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Discussion Forum : Miracles that follow the plow : What would you share (with a dying Catholic)

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 Re:

Hi TMK,

Martin Luther went with consubstantiation, presence being around the wafer. I would not describe MJ as an Evangelical, neither would I describe myself as such. We are both ex-RC who encountered the living God and we were born again by the Spirit who is now leading and guiding us into all truth. (which would mean away from error as well)

Do you believe that there are saved Mormons who remain Mormons, continue to call themselves Mormon? What about JW ? Muslims? Judaism? There is only one group in Scotland who remain within the Catholic church after claiming to be born again, and that is the charismatics, which is a whole other story.

MJ is write, RC is paganism and works based salvation. They have so many high heresies it would be hard to know where to start, paganism through and through. We are called out of darkness into His marvelous light and I praise God that over the centuries, millions of RC have encountered Jesus and left the Catholic church. You may know a few misguided souls, but that does not change the truth TMK. And here is the thing, unless you acknowledge that the Eucharist is Christ Himself, you cannot be a Catholic. In foolishness you may choose to call yourself by that name, but by rejecting the teaching authority of the Pope, you have been put under a curse ( anathema) by that very organisation and they would consider you hell-bound...........bro Frank

 2014/4/17 17:15









 Re:

Frank that is pretty much a protestant view of Catholicism that's for sure. The reality however is very different for some Roman Catholics. Not least because despite your insistence on committing them to the same meaning as Muslims or Jehovah's Witnesses and so on, you are missing the most profound reality of all. The Roman Church in the list you mentioned is the only group who actually acknowledge that Christ has come in the flesh. By Christ of course they mean the incarnate Son of God born of a virgin.

Roman Catholic dogma without doubt amounts to salvation by sacramental obedience. For those who understand the dogma, it really does amount to salvation by works, albeit works which are pressed by men set aside for that purpose. Not an easy thing to resist if you are minded to be subject to authorities. When I was researching the book Far From Rome Near to God with Martin Buckingham I had the opportunity to speak to a great many Roman Catholics and apart from a few primitive Catholics and many priests I didn't meet a single Catholic who could explain the sacrament of communion in its transubstantiate presence. So in the end what were these men and women I spoke to really believing? They were believing that Christ died for them and they were believing a man. The doctrine was and is beyond most Roman Catholics.The problem I think really comes down to revelation. Yet who would have the confidence to insist that over one billion men and women are perishing because they have followed the traditions of men?

I know we have been here before, but I wanted to present a balance. No man has the authority to insist that someone who has the power to believe that Christ died for their sins is yet perishing.

 2014/4/17 17:43









 Re:

Andrew writes........

'Frank that is pretty much a protestant view of Catholicism that's for sure."

That is a very dismissive statement brother, as if, if one can be pigeon-holed then one can ignore the words spoken. You seem to present yourself as someone who knows the Catholic community Andrew? Were you raised in the Catholic tradition? Were you raised in a Catholic community? Did you have a Catholic education? How many Catholics have you actually spoken to directly on the subject of being born again? Have you every actually asked a Catholic if and when they were born again and what that means to them.

The balance is the Word of God Andrew. How does Jesus say a man must be saved? What does the Word say about salvation and becoming a new creature in Christ? This is the balance, this is the measuring rod. The vast majority of Americans would say they are Christians, yet it is accepted that much of American Christianity is a cross-less or a Christ-less or a cultural Christianity.

You write.........

"Yet who would have the confidence to insist that over one billion men and women are perishing because they have followed the traditions of men? "

Jesus would.

Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
(Mat 7:13-16)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
(Mat 7:21-28)

 2014/4/18 0:30









 Re:

Quote:
That is a very dismissive statement brother, as if, if one can be pigeon-holed then one can ignore the words spoken. You seem to present yourself as someone who knows the Catholic community Andrew? Were you raised in the Catholic tradition? Were you raised in a Catholic community? Did you have a Catholic education? How many Catholics have you actually spoken to directly on the subject of being born again? Have you every actually asked a Catholic if and when they were born again and what that means to them.



I will politely ignore most of that Frank for your sake.

As for pigeonholing Frank! Ignoring the words spoken! Who's words? I sometime wonder if some of us have a lapsed memory or an inability to remember what we have read previously, or what has passed between us and those we address. It makes for a wholly ignorant discussion if every time we say something to a named person we have to re-iterate our whole life history in order to make a simple point. Its tedious and moronic!

 2014/4/18 0:50





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