SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Dark Side of Tithing Testimonies

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

It doesn't even make spiritual sense for a Christian to keep track of how much money they give to others, or how many chickens, or lambs, or bowls of soup, or pieces of clothing, etc. etc.

No system has been instituted in the NT and since men love to systematize and codify everything (even God), then it must be said that there is no PAYMENT SYSTEM in the NT. I am saying this only because of the weakness of man, we have a GIVING SYSTEM. I even have a hard time writing that, because God and matters of the heart cannot be systematized. But that is what religious man loves to do. We have vast libraries of Systematic Theology, which teach on many aspects of the PAYMENT SYSTEM. I would say the "Storehouse theology" in Malachi is probably the hub of the Evangelical Payment System theology.

I was told one time that the "storehouse" is the local church and you cannot give that portion to anyone else.

In the ages of grace and faith, God has commanded the church to give sacrificially and nothing about keeping a running ledger about how much you give and who you give to.

A payment system presupposes you OWE someone a DEBT. And yet, we are told to "owe no man anything but love". Payments are a requirement, Love is a gift. A gift is something that you give that you didn't have to give. It is not given because you must. It is not given out of necessity. It is not given under compulsion. Otherwise, it would not be a gift. It would be a payment.

2Cor 8:1 Moreover, brethren, we do you to wit of the grace of God bestowed on the churches of Macedonia;
2Cor 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
2Cor 8:3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power THEY WERE WILLING OF THEMSELVES;

2Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

God no longer wants His children to pay under compulsion, but to give cheerfully. It is impossible for the requirement of paying the tithe to remain if God says that our giving is not under compulsion. If you owe it, you are under compulsion to pay it. The very act of paying tithes creates an act of "necessity" and 2 Cor 9:7, says "not grudgingly, or of necessity".

"But shouldn't tithing be the starting place? Shouldn't it be the minimum?"

That would be like saying, "Shouldn't circumcision be the starting place?" "Shouldn't circumcision be the minimum?"

I think if this were true, the New Testament would have stated it, somewhere, just once.

The requirement of tithing has kept God's people in slavery to the Law and has kept them from growing in God's grace.

How can you grow in grace when you are bound to a legalism by others? Because, the Lord is certainly not binding us to a legalism of payments. We cannot accuse Him of putting this on us.

More importantly and what has not been explored yet, is that the legalistic teaching of tithing has opened doors to other legalisms in the church and that is why God's people cannot grow in grace towards one another. They are being compelled and required to "love". Is that just a crazy concept or what? It's like a person who is forced to live under Communism/Fascism for most of their lifetime and then freedom comes. They still by rote, go through the same motions everyday. They don't know what to do, or how to handle freedom. They still show up each day in line for their daily bread rations, they still "spy" on their neighbors as a good comrade looking for suspicious activity, they still parrot the party line when speaking to others not knowing what it means to be able to think and speak from a position of freedom of conscious. They have been bound by legalism for so long they even find security in their old way of life. It takes a drastic action to wake them up.

In short, people need a revelation to see that the Christian life is 100% about giving of all we are and all we have (according to 2 Cor 9:7) and not keep a running tabulation or record about your giving and not worrying about getting a tax deduction, and the Christian life is ZERO PERCENT about compulsion or requirements, or rules and regulations and yes, even the payment systems which we love so much and find security in.

Why is it so hard for people born of the Spirit to understand these things?

 2014/4/11 9:14
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

When I was growing up in the 50's and 60's we never had any issues with tithing. Today's Pastors that are building 50 million dollar buildings, and 5 million dollar homes, this has raised the issues of today. At our old church, we leased a home for our Pastor to live in, an he drove a used car. Jesus never even owned a home.


_________________
Bill

 2014/4/11 9:30Profile









 Re:

I would agree, Bill that the over the top greed and covetousness many has exposed the payment system. Have you seen how well some "pastors" in Africa and other countries have learned from the American tithing "champions". They actually out do some of America's richest pastors. They have Gulfstreams and even hangars to park their jets in. Tens of thousands of poor people are tithing to these men.

Today's payment system would not have been exposed if these men took the money that came in and distributed it to the needs of poor saints as the early church did. Of course the early church pooled their offerings together and there was no requirements or compulsion to give.

And this is part and parcel of what we have, today. A real witness to the lost.

http://www.nairaland.com/1342968/top-richest-pastors-world

 2014/4/11 9:45
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317
Texas

 Re:

Whats really sad is, how can a pastor worth millions preach from the heart to the needy? Personally, if I had millions I just don't think I could still possess the heart to be a good disciple. My older brother use to say, money can't buy happiness, but it sure can make living in misery a lot easier.


_________________
Bill

 2014/4/11 9:58Profile









 Re:

Withdrawn.

 2014/4/11 10:28
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 804


 Re:

[edited]

Yeah Gary is right. We do need to spur one another on toward love and good works--all the more as we see the day approaching.

 2014/4/11 10:30Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
They don't know what to do, or how to handle freedom.


This is an interesting point you've brought up. I lived in the former Soviet Union from 1991-1996. This was right after the Iron Curtain fell, right after Gorbachev stepped down and Yeltsin took over. Democracy was new for the Russians; businesses could now be privatized, including banks. As result of this liberty, violent organized crime groups suddenly came into existence. The streets Moscow resembled Chicago during the Al Capone prohibition era of the 1920s and 30s. Banks were robbed almost daily, mafia hits at traffic lights, extortion, racketeering, kidnappings of company CEOs, etc. The opportunity to suddenly make unlimited money in this system of embryonic-capitalism brought open violence. Liberated from communism, the the poor Russians now found themsevles prey to the overwhelming corruption of a huge mafia-run syndicate eager to take advantage of their new freedom.

Many people expressed how it had been safer to live under the dicates of communism. Some even wished Josef Stalin were back. They would rather deal with the predictable confines of communism than with the unpredictable violence the free market engendered.

When people are set free from the law (i.e. the communistic law of Moses which demanded uniform conformity) by the Son of God, like those Russians, they suddenly find themselves in a quandary. They don't know how to handle their new freedom. Some people, like the pharisees Paul mentions in Galatians, actually become indignant when they see a person walking in spiritual freedom and seek to put the person back under bondage. They imagine that Christian "freedom" really can't mean total freedom. There still must be some communistic do's and don'ts: "Do tithe. Do not drink alcohol. Do not dance. Do Sabbath. Do pray 3 hours per day. Do not cosmetics. Do not jewelry. Do not TV. Do read 10 chapters of Bible per day. Do not wear pants if female, etc."

These are just some of the more popular "Christian community" rules that are often imposed upon believers in their freedom. They are imposed because they are regarded as "safe", to protect against the potential threat of lasciviousness that comes with the freedom grace brings. Some of those guidelines are good, and I observe them myself. But I observe them because I am led by God to observe them and not coerced by man. This is the fulcrum. We are free to give, but we are also free not to give if the giving is not purposed in our hearts.

This angers people. It angers them because they see the atrocities that occur when people take advantage of God's grace, and this I can understand. Where they go wrong, however, is in the endeavoring to merge elements of spiritual communism with grace to try to keep the sheep in tow. Again, the sheep are free. Totally, utterly free. But this freedom is intended to bring them under the law of grace where the Chief Shepherd can take over. If the Chief Shepherd says "Give", they give. If the Chief Shepherd says "Withhold", they withhold. If the Chief Shepherd says, "Go", they go. No man under the New Covenant has the right to usurp the role of the Chief Shepherd in issuing these directives in a spiritually communistic setting. As soon as he does this, grace vanishes and the old spoonfed regime of Josef Stalin returns.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2014/4/11 11:03Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 804


 Re:

Paul, what were you doing in Russia during that time?

 2014/4/11 12:09Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Paul, what were you doing in Russia during that time?


I worked with a film production crew initially in 1991, which produced "Stalin" with Robert Duvall, filmed in Moscow and in Budapest. After that I worked with my father (Don West) on "Police Academy 7: Mission to Moscow". After these movies wrapped, I extended my visa and enrolled in the Moscow State Institute of Foreign Relations (MGIMO) and studied international journalism and Portugese as a foreign language (in Russian). Then I taught English for a few years as a freelancer and did some commercial translating. For a few years I travelled around Russia (Moscow, St. Petersburg, Zelenograd, Astrakhan) and lived a very debaucherous, wild life. Came back to the United States in 1996 and worked for the US Army as a Russian signals interceptor until I got saved in 2001.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2014/4/11 12:38Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 804


 Re:

"until I got saved in 2001."

You stopped at the good part...lol. How did that come about?

 2014/4/11 16:19Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy