SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Bill Gothard Placed on Administrative Leave

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:
I do not affirm or deny what has been written on the Recovering Grace website. I do sense that many of the comments written there are out of great bitterness. We have been involved with this organization for decades. I would caution everyone to look within themselves and make certain that we are not reading every juicy tidbit in a spirit of slander or gossip. If you were not involved, it is really no concern other than to pray. God desires truth in the innermost parts. I pray that truth is disclosed to that end.

Many young lives have been damaged not so much thru this program or the failings of men like Mr Gothard or Doug Phillips (earlier thread), but through satan's efforts to distort the truth of the Bible thru the humanity of these men. None of us is beyond falling. Please, saints, do not fall into the trap of gossip.....And pray for the young people - that they will be able to discern truth, and not jump off into compromise out of not wanting to be linked with this group or that group. Such things have happened in many a church as well.....a very grievous thing. The enemy will go to any length to derail God's plan. Many of us parents poured our lives into raising godly seed for God's glory...we are not perfect, and neither are our leaders perfect...mama27



Amen to every word of your post mama27. It is seasoned with wisdom and grace from a mother who has every good reason to comprehend its fuller meaning. Bless you for having the courage and integrity to share your own heart.

 2014/3/4 9:09









 Re:

When something is "reported commonly" then the man of God should step up rather than not address widespread public statements from Christians (those beside him in ministry as well as those who receive his ministry). Any accusation, especially a voluminous amount of accusations from within the Church (ministry boards members, team members, young people and parents) should never be ignored. This is not without precedent.

What did Paul do with hearsay that was from more than the mouth of two witnesses?

1Cor 5:1 IT IS REPORTED COMMONLY that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

"It is reported commonly"

 2014/3/4 10:02









 Re:

Quote:
1Cor 5:1 IT IS REPORTED COMMONLY that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.



Ὅλως ἀκούεται ἐν ὑμῖν πορνεία, καὶ τοιαύτη πορνεία ἥτις οὐδὲ ἐν τοῖς ἔθνεσιν, ὥστε γυναῖκά τινα τοῦ πατρὸς ἔχειν"

Tischendorf, C. von, Gregory, C. R., & Abbot, E. (Eds.). (1869–1894). Novum Testamentum graece. (Vol. 2, p. 478). Lipsiae: Giesecke & Devrient.

holos (ὅλως, 3654), from holos, “all, whole,” is translated “actually” in 1 Cor. 5:1, RV (“it is actually reported”); the KJV “commonly” does not convey the meaning. In 6:7 it is translated “altogether” (KJV, “utterly”); in 15:29, “at all,” as in Matt. 5:34. See ALL, ALTOGETHER.¶

Vine, W. E., Unger, M. F., & White, W., Jr. (1996). Vine’s Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words. Nashville, TN: T. Nelson.

It would appear that your rationale is predicated on the idea that if enough people are willing to make an accusation then it must be true. Or at least if not true then it must be seen as true and dealt with as though it were true for the sake of the alleged victims.

I noted your link to this website four weeks ago and followed it up then. I feel sure that you will be pleased to know that I didn't miss it after all. I looked through the site from the first post in 2011 right up to the last post and article. I spent five or six hours going through the site.

I noted that the site was originally set up to challenge Bill Gothard's teachings. The accusations of sexual harassment began to be added after some considerable time. Did you realise that the very worst and most serious accusation by an individual female amounts to Bill allegedly giving her a kiss on the lips as he said goodbye to her. It is all set into context of an abuse of authority. And for obvious legal reasons the actual act which ultimately defines the term abuse is set in the parlance of statutory criminal law. The term used is sexual harassment.

Another accusation has to do with the appropriateness of spending time with females alone and in that context encouraging them to confess their sexual sins. In that context you ought to read much more carefully before you join in the accusations yourself.I have to tell you that the statement of this particular sister is so flawed rationally that it couldn't stand up in a court of law in any country. It is rationally flawed and inconsistent with truthfulness in the proper sense of what truthfulness means. I don't expect you to believe me but as you are so eager to be the man of God in this matter you might want to go back and read her 'testimony' (statement) properly and you may just see what I mean. If not who cares?

There are also other accusation, mostly to do with what could reasonably be called sexual harassment.

One thing is very definite the determination of those who manage this site is to destroy a man, deal a death blow to what they believe are false teachings and to do it in public with no meaningful opportunity for the man himself to reasonably defend himself. You may have no comprehension of what truth is, but some of us have. Telling Bill that he can attend a meeting where he can meet the people he has harmed, including the females who he has abused and manipulated, is to find him guilty by majorative or commonly held reports. It is no wonder that you place so much emphasis on the term 'commonly' from your elected translation of 1 Corinthians 5:1.

Still kissing an 18 year old girl on the lips is a probable hanging offence in some States. He may even have to suffer eternal torment for it. Now that will be worth watching as we bask in the glory of our own righteousness.

 2014/3/4 11:46









 Re:

Ahh, someone went into the Greek to nullify the plain words of Scripture.

That is reported to be a common practice, today. It actually is a common practice.

Two witnesses is plenty. 30 is more than enough. I have been following this for 10 years so though it is not a surprise to me, I understand why it is a surprise to others.

 2014/3/4 11:48
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37631
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:


As part of our community rules we have:

7. SLANDERING OTHERS - We have a zero tolerance on slander, evil-speaking and speaking against a person's character without warrant. 'Slander no one.' / 'to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.' NASB (Titus 3:2). This is a very important biblical principle and we ask that you would especially respect the biblical method of approaching a brother privately (Matthew 18:15). Also there are hundreds of websites in the internet that exclusively post wrong teachings, errors and question the character of Christians, we do not want SermonIndex to be seen as such a ministry and ask that all forum members do not participate in posting in what is wrong. We believe simply that truth dispels errors and to focus on the truth will shine a light into all the darkness.

Please do read more here: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13


Towards Bill Gothard, and news about his falling, I at first was very grieved and reluctant to post the news item. I do not agree with all the teachings of his ministry but did have respect for some things. I have heard recently from one elder brother that these allegations (some of them) could very well possibly be true and there is a seriousness here. I would personally rather post the end result from the ministry and godly men who are weighing this situation. That is the one reason why I was reluctant and still am to a small measure to cast a stone and say that Bill Gothard IS guilty.


we posted this above statement in this thread: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=51725&forum=35


May we look to ourselves more then judging others. Have I watched women in a wrong way? Am I enjoying emotional conversations with women? Do I enjoy looking at pretty women?

May God preserve us from accusing others but ourselves being in transgression. May we pray for brothers who have seemingly failed.

I highly recommend this free booklet: Contentiously Contending: A Word to Today’s Apologetics Emphasis by Anton Bosch
https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/392961


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/3/4 11:54Profile









 Re:

Greg, would you be clear? Are you accusing recoveringgrace.org of slandering? I have not read where anyone on SI is slandering. To accuse someone of slander is to slander them. Can you identify who you are accusing of slander or are you just warning everyone to be careful?

 2014/3/4 12:07
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1773


 Re:

I don't know who this man is, so there is no way I can judge him. Nor am I interested in knowing the truth about these allegations.

But some of the comments here make me worried, it appears that people are biased to a person because of the success of ministry. Saying that these are sins covered by blood of Jesus, only shows the lack of seriousness to sin. Such terrible sexual misconduct are not performed overnight due to sudden temptation, it should be a result of long standing entertainment of sexual sin, unwilling to repent. Secondly this is not an ordinary church brother, he is involved in a ministry run by public money. A person with such serious sin whether repented or not cannot continue in a ministry. It is serious thing to lead a ministry in God's name.

The reason I am stressing on this is there is a danger of us believing in wolf in sheepskin if we are blinded by fruit of a ministry rather than seeing the fruits in personal life.


_________________
Sreeram

 2014/3/4 12:19Profile









 Re:

Sree,

The issue was reported by a Christian magazine used widely by homeschoolers and Christians in general. It is a magazine about Christian worldview and world events which included events within Christendom.

The conversations here are not about him, as they have turned to what the Church should do in these situations according to the Scriptures. The ATI board is handling the matter and everyone should wait for their response.

 2014/3/4 12:23









 Re:

Quote:
Ahh, someone went into the Greek to nullify the plain words of Scripture. just-in



The plain words of scripture are written in Greek in this instance of 1 Corinthians chapter five!

Can I just say that I have no knowledge of Bill or his ministry or his teachings or his anything. It wouldn't matter to me what he had done for the Lord as far as using my mind is concerned to understand the truthfulness of something. The only reason I looked into this issue is because you made it so with your signature link to the web site which is condemning him. When I started to read those statements or testimonies of alleged abuse and compared that with the actual narrative of the website I found an alarming disparity. I kept it to myself then and have only commented now because once again you have raised the issue. You have encouraged people to go to this site and you have self evidently done so because you believe both the narrative and the testimony is true.

Now you are saying that all of this has somehow an official stamp of concern. So you say wait and see. There has been no waiting and seeing by anyone. The site condemned Bill online in public without reservation months ago. I made a copy of the site in its previous state to record the facts as they were. The new sight is a more sophisticated version in which the details are becoming more and more carefully worded as things gather momentum. Either way it is all going to come to a head very quickly and I rather doubt that Mr Gothard will be spared as the crowd is already baying for his neck. It is only a simple matter of translating things into a form of words which informs statutory responsibility in the issue of duty of care and employment, and any authority, other than criminal, will be obliged to press for his removal or else the ministry itself will collapse under the weigh of a risk of future prosecution should anyone else come forwards with a more serious charge that clearly falls into the frame of reference of genuine abuse of a minor.

This is not truth and it is not true justice. Whatever it is, it will not matter to anyone who cannot see beyond the end of their noses.

 2014/3/4 13:00









 Re:

I don't agree at all with how you are characterizing the content or the Believers on the website. I will not get into a tit for tat with you. There are many, many websites that speak of such evidence. I will not list them, but they are many more than what exists for Doug Phillips (Vision Forum) and the content is not new. It goes back many years. It is a well-known tactic to twist the words of the defendants and this situation is no different. That is all I will say.

 2014/3/4 13:11





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy