| Poster | Thread | Jeremy221
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| | And thy desire shall be to thy husband... | | And he shall rule over thee...
Quote:
Genesis 3:16 KJV
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
In Genesis, fundamental laws of human relationship were established. In marriage, God creates Eve for Adam as a helper. It was their job to to tend and manage the Garden. There were no children yet and they got their food from the trees of the Garden. God was the source of everything for them. They cared for the plants that fed themselves as well as the animals, and they communed with the Father. They communed with the Father and walked in the cool of the day together, listening to His voice knowing His will for the day to come. They were one flesh hearing from God and doing His will. They both heard God's voice, the Spirit brought unity between them. So how was Eve a helper for Adam? God created Eve that she could help him fulfill God's will. She didn't have her own directions, Adam's purpose was hers. When he fulfilled the Father's directions, she had also completed her work because they were one flesh before God. Yet, they both heard God's voice, saw His form and walked with Him in the cool of the day. There was an equality of access to God and they knew the life flowing from obedience. They had one head which was Christ, they followed the Word according to His leading and tended what He had given them.
God created many wonderful fruit bearing trees in the Garden of Eden and gave them as food to mankind, including the Tree of Life. "And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food;" (Gen 2:9), that would include the Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Eve had the job of tending the garden with Adam, the whole garden. Modern evangelical thought would suggest that they never looked on or could touch the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil but it was their job to tend the whole garden, that tree included. They also had the responsibility for the Tree of Life. When you come into the blessings of God, it can take a long time to understand all of the beautiful fruit that becomes freely available. There are such riches made available that partaking of the trees is a great process. One can spiritualize this only, which is a true understanding, but there is also the application of the physical abundance provided. God does indeed provide a plethora of wonderful things for us that we should take part in with thankfulness.
In this time of fellowship, there was also communication with the animals. If the serpent was the most subtle beast of the field, it must have been possible to talk with the other beasts of the field. I don't think that this is like promoted in fairy tales and myth but something real and pure. These beasts were made by the holy God who sent His son to die for us and who didn't play favoritism to any man. When you see animals in the wild, they display a similar character. Animals are neither the entirely savage creatures portrayed by culture or the overly humanized little people some imagine, they are lower than man but not without reason and emotion. If God restored the ability of animals to speak, I suspect, we would find it natural because they would demonstrate the wisdom of God.
Every thing was in unity in the Garden, all had plenty to eat and work to do. There was purpose, provision and unity. Man was set into a world with so much to learn about and do and God Himself was their teacher, walking with them in the cool of the day. He must have taught them how to tend the garden and have dominion over all the beasts of the field. The Spirit taught them all things and showed them the right way to serve Him and each other. Because they loved and obeyed God, they loved their neighbor as themselves. Can you imagine being in the presence of God daily receiving wisdom and instruction about every detail? Seeing your limitation in light of His divinity? The walk was like stepping through the veil of your limitations to truth.
Then you rest and rise to work the next day and see the awesome wisdom of God meet your need as your fulfill His will. It's like being with a master craftsman and seeing him work, deftly he counters minutia you can't even comprehend without a seeming forethought. It's beautiful. The God who knows the end of the beginning has given them wisdom to meet their need but also provides situations where they must seek His wisdom again that evening. God poured such riches into Eve when she was in fellowship with her husband and the Father, she had the cry in her heart like any other child of God to be like Him because she could see Him as He is, she saw Him face to face in the cool of the day. Adam and Eve were only flesh and blood like us but they had not sinned so they could fellowship with God. The desire to be known was not present because man and woman dwelt in close communion with God. They knew His love firsthand and fed from its unsearchable riches daily to do their work, its breadth, length, breadth and depth boggled them.
When you read about the incredible advancements of mankind in the first few generations, it is amazing. These are the children of Adam and Eve, the ones first given the task to tend the whole earth and fill it. Their only context was God Himself and the beasts of the field. In the fulness of time, they were tending the Garden near the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, doing the work they were given and the godly desire to know the unsearchable riches they saw every night was perverted.
There was a certain desire to be free of their dependance on God. They could know the right thing to do to care for the Garden. They were working hard and like all the other fruit of the garden, it looked good to eat. And God made it so beautiful because God's workmanship is good indeed. If Eve had this fruit and was like God, she would see all the right things to do that would help Adam fill his work for the day and they would receive praise from God for doing perfect work.
Quote:
Genesis 3:16 KJV
[16] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
In this context it is important to consider the phrase "and thy desire shall be to thy husband." If this is included in the curse, it means that her desire was to something else before and considering that she was without sin, it was God Himself.
We should be careful to view this in light of the New Covenant because there are implications. Until the dispensation of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, this fellowship with God was only for a few and in a much more limited portion. Women have tasted of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil and though they suggest they are pure, the testimony of Scripture is otherwise. Paul testifies that it was the woman who sinned first. Women transforming themselves, physically, emotionally, mentally and morally for a mate is so common, it is accepted as the right thing. She makes and eats what he desires and raises children to be in his image. She adopts his mentality and preferences. She demonstrates his life, his reason for existence. The home becomes a temple for their gods and what was a small thing when they were alone becomes the anchors of marriage. Idols of ambition, sloth, gluttony, pride, vanity sit on the mantle and in the bedroom. The conversation centers around their false gods who have united them. A fragrance of worship is in every house, even those who think they whole heartedly serve Christ. Subtle choices betray hearts but they can also be evidence of transformed lives. When you see details that look dangerous but see the love Christ in the hearts and faces of the couple, it is beautiful. There can be a touching things would be evil in another's hands, which like the tending of the Tree of Good and Evil but not eating the fruit, are not defiled. The work is deep.
Unmarried women can know the glories of Eden in regular life as well. When you are filled with the Spirit, a greater type of the fellowship in the Garden is realized. Day by day, she can know the mind of God and walk accordingly, not walking in the wisdom of her own making but eating the fruit of the Spirit and partaking of the bread that came down from Heaven. In this state, unmarried, she is free from the components of a married woman. There is no husband and no children. She can know the blessing of the woman who has not borne children than her who has a husband (Isa 54:1) in the Spirit. She can be totally committed to Christ and not torn away to the things of this world as Paul warns in 1 Corinthians 7:32-33, that the married person must tend to the things of this world to serve their spouse. When someone is fully committed to God, this is experienced as loss. Intimacy with Christ is priceless as the cry of Jesus when the Father turned His face away from Him. Bearing spiritual children for God is not something to be belittled or under rated. Many married people lament that they can not commit as much time or energy to seeking God as they want and their spiritual growth is often stunted or delayed. There are exceptions like the apostle Peter who was married before he followed Christ, because Jesus healed Peter's mother-in-law the first day dropped everything to follow Him. Unmarried, you can have singleness of eye that a married person can not simply because of the realities of marriage. In fact, Paul warns that denying your spouse the attention they need could allow a door for temptation for Satan to use against you.
Married and unmarried, can you expand on this? When the Gospel is preached it must present the savory and unsavory meat. I believe to many, this is unsavory meat.
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|  2014/2/23 2:51 | Profile |
| | Re: And thy desire shall be to thy husband... | | Quote:
Paul testifies that it was the woman who sinned first.
Brother, I am assuming that you are referring to 11 Cor. 11.3 where it says that Eve was fooled by Satan. This is what she admitted when questioned by God, so when she disobeyed, it was not due to any rebellion in her, not like that of Adam. She was not aware that she was being disobedient as she knew that it was God's will that her and her husband should be like God. It was the method which was at fault.
God's way was that by eating of the tree of life, which is by spiritual knowledge that they should be one with Him and share in His nature, but Eve's mistake was in thinking that perhaps she had misunderstood Adam, as he had been instructed by God before Eve was formed, and it was the tree of knowledge of good an evil (working through the understanding of the fleshy or natural knowledge of man) that she would achieve God's will and so she partook of the tree of death whilst under a misunderstanding. She was not in rebellion.
Adam however was in direct disobedience and indeed outright rebellion when he pointed his finger at God and blamed Him (the woman you gave me). He joined forces with Satan at this point. Eve had not therefore Adam sinned first. He may have sinned even earlier, as protector and carer of the Garden, had allowed the satan to gain entry.
Paul was using Eve's so called sin as an example that even if we are desiring to obey, we may be misled.
Quote:
n this context it is important to consider the phrase "and thy desire shall be to thy husband." If this is included in the curse, it means that her desire was to something else before and considering that she was without sin, it was God Himself.
"124. God spoke warningly to Eve at this time, telling her that she was inclining to turn away from Himself to her husband, and telling her that if she did so her husband would rule over her. The correct rendering of the next phrase of Genesis 3:16 is this: "Thou art turning away to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee,"— not as it has been rendered, "Thy desire shall be to thy husband." This assertion, as to the correct meaning of the phrase we
shall now prove. As we have said before, a misinterpretation of a passage of Scripture can be proved by the misfit. The usual construction put upon the language of this verse fits accurately nowhere; the correct interpretation fits all around.
125. The original word used here is teshuqa, and as it only occurs three times in the Hebrew language, its sense must be fixed (1) by studying its relation to other words in
the sentences where it occurs: (2) by studying its
derivation and structure: (3) and by studying the way it is rendered in the ancient versions of Scripture.
126. To study its relations to other words, we will leave it untranslated, but, write it in its proper sentences, inserting the noun equivalents for the pronouns used.
Genesis 3:16, "-and-to-Adam, Eve's teshuqa." 51 Genesis 4:7,11 "-and-to-Cain, Abel's teshuqa" (teshuqa,) Sol. Song 7:10, "-and-to-the-Church Christ's teshuqa" (as usually interpreted).
Now compare. No verbs are expressed. The conjunction is one for all and also the preposition. This is true of the Hebrew original also. In fact there is no variety in the
three sentences, excepting in the proper nouns implied in the pronouns used. The sense of the three passages must be similar." (Bushnell, God's Gift to Women)
Eve was warned that in her turning away from God and to her husband which was her sin, in following him out of the garden, she would be ruled over by him. The sin which had cast Adam out, in joining with Satan, would be a curse to her and she would no longer be treated as his helper and his equal apart from those who have been delivered and indwelt by the Spirit. Unfortunately in the church these are in the minority.
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| | 2014/2/23 4:58 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Brother, I am assuming that you are referring to 11 Cor. 11.3 where it says that Eve was fooled by Satan. This is what she admitted when questioned by God, so when she disobeyed, it was not due to any rebellion in her, not like that of Adam. She was not aware that she was being disobedient as she knew that it was God's will that her and her husband should be like God. It was the method which was at fault.
And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
New American Standard Bible: 1995 update. (1995). (1 Ti 2:14). LaHabra, CA: The Lockman Foundation.
I suppose the only real question we could ask at this point is shall we now say that it was Adam who deceived Eve? Perhaps we could say that it was God Himself Who deceived Eve! Maybe we could just say that there is no relationship between being deceived and transgressing.
Whatever we say it will lead to error if we don't say that which is true.
In keeping with the intention we shall say that Adam lead Eve astray by drawing her out of the garden. Let us say that the man is the weaker vessel and that his strength lies in the woman. Let us say that the woman became a fool and not a deceiver when she gave that which she had taken foolishly. Let us say that even when she gave she was not deceived but simply momentarily fooled. Let us say that after she ate she was yet innocent and that she was without sin. Let us say that God warned her in her innocence concerning her husband in his sinfulness, that she would be drawn by him into sin by his weakness and need for the woman. Let us say that so far as the woman is concerned it is not the wicked one who brought sin into the woman, but the man. Let us say whatsoever we will. Declare no consequence whatsoever to our words. They are but the mere form of things. Let us say to the valiant men who so swiftly set their hands to the charge of other men, "what say you now oh man?"
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| | 2014/2/26 20:16 | |
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