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We appreciate the responses. They were awesome. Yes you hit the nail on the head, my friend got caught up in this through a KJV only group on the net. Aggressive, KJV only group. So first replier was correct.
Please can you all pray for my friend, her name is Ness. Within 3 weeks she has become entrenched in this heresy. I had no idea about this heresy until this week & have spent all week researching it. It is absolutely vile! Promoting the messenger (Paul) above the message and discrediting all other books in NT apart from Paul's for personal relevance. Many of do not believe that you can actually be saved unless you hear the gospel of grace through 1 Corinthians...and only if you believe in faith, not through repentence. They try and remove repentance.
Again first replier was correct, she has started making connections with online community giving up her local community entirely. She spends all her free time studying this stuff whilst removing herself further from us. The irony is they try and sell this heresy as "so much simpler" than mainstream Christianity. They only have a few books of Paul's to read YET they have to spend countless hours studying to rightly divide! Nonsense! I have listened and read so much RD in the past week and another replier was correct - they spend 85% of their time running down mainstream Christianity with fabricated lies (like we all believe in sinless perfection and demand that Christians have to live a sinless life to get into Heaven)...when they know mainstream Christians don't believe this.
The more I have read the worst it gets. They do not even believe Peter & the rest of the apostles/disciples got saved until Paul preached the gospel of grace to them. They have an twisted argument for every contention because they can make up what they like because they are dividing. They pick and choose what scriptures suit.
Please pray earnestly saints for our friend.
| 2014/2/21 6:26||Profile|
| Re: |
If memory serves correct, some of these groups also refer to themselves as "Bereans."
And what this group (and most Christians) fail to realize is that repentnance is simply the changing of your thinking and beliefs, which results in corresponding actions. You believe differently, so you behave differently. It's just that simple. Some holiness groups have perverted what repentance actually is, and as a result, some groups such as this capitalize upon the issue of repentance and make it sound like we are talking about dead works.
I'll pray for your friend. There isn't much you can do beyond that, other than to continue to be kind and a friend. They'll probably pull away from you the more they get into this. But that's ok. That's how the Lord often deals with these things.
| 2014/2/21 7:51||Profile|
| Re: |
KingJimmy wrote : /// If memory serves correct, some of these groups also refer to themselves as "Bereans."///
Yes, I think I remember that also.
KingJimmy wrote : ///And what this group (and most Christians) fail to realize is that repentnance is simply the changing of your thinking and beliefs, which results in corresponding actions. You believe differently, so you behave differently. It's just that simple. Some holiness groups have perverted what repentance actually is, and as a result, some groups such as this capitalize upon the issue of repentance and make it sound like we are talking about dead works.///
That is spot on Jimmy, and thank you for bringing that up because that is when I started reliezing the great error of this movement,
Jerry Sanders said once : That The prostitute and the drunk if they got saved could go back into prostitution or back into being a drunk and they would still be saved, now that was very alarming.
I thought I must have misunderstood what was said so I asked one of there followers, and he said that this was what they taught, he said that it would not be good for a testimony but other that that going back into a lifestyle characterized by sin would not effect salvation.
As far as I know they did not teach that such cases would be chastized back on the straight path or any such thing.
Carter that might be an area that you discuss with your friend before it is to late, it was in this area that I started reliezing how much error their was in there beliefs.
| 2014/2/21 10:58||Profile|
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I believe Jesus Christ is raised from the dead. How can I ever be the same after believing such a wonderful claim?
| 2014/2/21 12:49||Profile|
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KingJimmy wrote : /// I believe Jesus Christ is raised from the dead. How can I ever be the same after believing such a wonderful claim?///
I agree but ..
This is where it gets confusing for me and why I wrote in one of the post : I wrote : /The thing that confuses me about them is that we can not rightly catagorize them as 'easy-believism' because they do not teach a shallow intellectual exceptance of salvation./
They do not spread a shallow intellectual exceptance of salvation, such as we see so often with the failure of the sinners prayer, but they get down and go over scriptural verses untill there is a breakthrough of belief to the heart but from that point ummm..?
| 2014/2/21 16:51||Profile|
| Re: |
It completely baffles me how they even came up with this stuff. It is just so out there. I have been up front and honest with my friend on facebook tonight. We are currently in a conversation about it. Please pray saints!!!! My heart has just been broken that she is being lost.
| 2014/2/22 7:27||Profile|
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The teaching of the Jehovah's Witness is the greatest example of hyper dispensational theology. The core doctrine removes Jesus as God. In similar fashion, the teachings of the Protestants remove Jesus and His work from 80 percent of the Scriptures. They reject the Holy One of Israel.
| 2014/2/22 11:31||Profile|
| Re: |
What a statement, Rookie. I never saw it that way before, but it makes so much sense.
To the earlier conversation i would like to note the fact of how clever satan is to try to tie Hyper Dispensationalism and "KJV-only" together. So once you identify one component as heretic, you are inclined to kick the other one out as well. He went to extreme lenghts to take out the word of God of our daily reality.
And that's just another attempt in that long list of attacks. I personally can read authors that haven't digged deep into the Bible translations issue yet, something PPapa and me already did in the past. It's a more complex studdy than Hyper Dispensationalism, something everyone should be able to identify has pure induced nonsense, and if you don't see its satanic source, it's because the great falling away is happening right now in real time.
I always found it to be very strange on one KJV forum that the acceptance of Dispensationalism was so high. I couldn't make sense of it, that a group of people that wrote some of the very best articles on purity and preservation of the scriptures at the same time bought into these fiery darts of corruption theology of the Darby school of philosophy. Reason might be that most of them went through seminaries, and these are ALL heavily influened by Jesuits, that have it in their 'declaration of formation' that one of their goals is to take out the KJV of our life and replace it with anything else that can be bought in a catholic approved books retailer, like for example the NIV. Go to a catholic book store and see for yourself.
So, yes the delusion of Hyper Dispensationalism is extreme, and once someone goes there will have a very difficult time to resurface to the light of Jesus Christ. However, the 'softer problem' of not understanding what the word of God is, is just as critical today, and in extension this attitude of many to be slightly amused or irritated when someone has a single-minded "Jesus-only" relationship to the uniqueness of the word of God might be in the end just as dangerous in the future because you seem never been able to wrap your mind around that simple fact that 'one God' has really only 'one Bible'. This is not a universty type of situation where people correct the teacher if they come up with better research or translation. That is so infantile and will stay that way until you really study outside of the box the seminaries created for you.
I did not put one ounce of arrogance in that last sentence, I only ask you humbly to reconsider the issue. We all need prayer, not only the person in question in the OP, we all have been under a mild form of deception and do not even know it. "Jesus-only" or "KJV-only" is now against the pluralism we all could'nt shake so far for the sake of community and discussion. However God's standard is not our standard. This is not a salvation issue, however it's a issue if you are able to identify the works of the enemy, or not. Please pray for understanding, our God is a God that answers prayers.
| 2014/2/22 21:00||Profile|
| Re: great discusion so far|
It is interesting to see that the word Dispensation in the Greek refers to administration or stewardship, one thing has never changed from the beginning of creation to the time of eternity and that is that God has always given stewardsip to His chosen people, it started with Adam and has never changed.
Satans whole plan has been to destroy the stewardship given to us by God.
In the Old Testament it was the Great men of God and the House of Israel (the Commonwealth of Israel)
Satan has always tried to bring destruction, even to Jesus who came from that lineage.
It is no different today, the Old Testament foreshadowed Christ.
When Christ came He brought Salvation to the Commonwealth of Israel, it was a Salvation that had always been promised to Gods people.
In the Old Testament the Gentiles could Repent and turn to God and become part of the Commonwealth of Israel, it is no different today, us Gentiles can repent and turn to God and become part of the Commonwealth of Israel.
This Commonwealth of Israel is made up of Jew and Gentile where we have become one body in Christ, the wall of separation has been destroyed.
As Ephesisns so clearly states
Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Eph 2:17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Eph 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
Let us always remember the Dispensation given to man, to be Stewards of the Most High God.
There is only one Body of Christ, one Church, one Commonwealth of Israel, one true Olive Tree and it is made up of both Jew and Gentile, one in Christ Jesus.
We all fail at different times in many areas, but we must always remember that we are the body of Christ and are all knitted together.
Shalom comes when the authority that causes chaos in our lives is destroyed.
| 2014/2/22 22:13||Profile|
| Re: |
carter wrote: "Please can you all pray for my friend, her name is Ness. Within 3 weeks she has become entrenched in this heresy."
Please qualify "this heresy".
If she is in a state of knowing that Jesus Christ and His Spirit are in her, then don't try to take away the single most glorious event that has happened since Pentecost. If she has the revelation of the Christ in her, Praise God, God could do nothing else for the believer that has any greater power to show the greatest form of His Grace, Love and Fatherhood, than to birth His Son in Her.
Our deliverance from darkness and bringing us into the power of God's only dear Son, by putting another being in the believer, that is the Spirit of Jesus Christ and His Power to take the place of Satan and His power over us. This is the glory of the mystery revealed to the Saints by Paul.
Colossians 1:12-29 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; (((((which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:))))) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.
How can any man be presented perfect? Only in Christ and Christ alone are we perfect. Only the perfect will make it into the Kingdom of God With Jesus Christ bringing His Bride without spot or wrinkle with Him to present Her to The Father.
Reconciling us unreproveable and unblameable when it comes to our being presented Holy in His Sight. It is not what I do, it is what God and His Son Jesus has done for, to and in the believer. This great mystery among the Gentiles, which, ((((((Christ IN you the hope of Glory)))))). Nothing greater has been done for the sons' of God, the Children of God, Gods' offspring, being born again into the Family of God who is our Father and Jesus Christ by His life and Spirit in us, our Brother.
I am the weakness, foolish, unwise, not mighty, and certainly not noble, unworthy and a lost sinner, of whom God has made unto me and birthed in me, wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption and this is the making of Christ in us. Glory
1 Corinthians 1:23-31 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
If this precious Lady is coming to this truth of Christ in Her, By direct revelation of the Holy Spirit let her alone, she is the one that is blessed. The life she now lives, she lives by the Faith of the Son of God. Who Himself being our only justification and redemption.
Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
I pray that this blessed sister comes to the full knowledge of the Son of God, Jesus Christ whom the Father has birthed His only begotten Son in Her which is now Her Glory.
Paul spoke of this mystery of Christ in you 166 times in different ways, most certainly it must be of Greatest importance, if You Believe what Paul said about "MY Gospel".
In Christ: Phillip
| 2014/2/27 3:00||Profile|