Okay saints,

This is what I was kinda hoping to see when I tuned into the debate the other night with Ken Ham and Bill Nye. It really all just starts and ends right here, let me know your thoughts , it is really quite amusing and I think something everyone can grasp and it truly just cuts all the rest of the arguments off at the knees.............bro Frank

http://youtu.be/v34QjYPuiEA

That is hilarious, yet so indicting of Mr. Dawkins own view.

Yes indeed, I would show this video to all young folks, it simply ends right there, everything else is a red herring........bro Frank

My teenage son watched Ken Ham and Bill Nye and wondered why there was not a more simple answer. He also realized that to an Atheist, it does not matter how simple the answer is, that his real problem was not intellectual, but spiritual. I was very pleased (to say the least) to hear that from him.

You can "bet your bottom dollar" that Atheists believe in "something", and they are hoping that this something is friendly and does not require accountability.

This is what needs to happen. Excoriate atheism and show how damaging and foolish it is. Don't debate it. David Berlinski does just that. Every young person should see this, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-A4Jyf8Ohk

This is more of a philosophical debate than trying to produces evidences of God or the lack, thereof.

Well, that was both stimulating and exhausting, a secular Jew with a vast knowledge of history and literature debating the rock star atheist Christopher Hitchens!

Hitchens' most serious objection to Christian theology is the substitutionary death for sin which is of course the central doctrine of the faith. He sees it as an abdication of personal responsibility, without proposing a reasonable alternative to the destructive consequences of human sin. Unforgiven and incapable of forgiving, he is stuck in the super-glue of bitterness. It literally drips from his words.

Futility. The Holy Spirit does not come through the mind, He does satisfy the mind, but of necessity first attacks the heart. Sin is known in the conscience, and the unregenerate must manipulate and rationalize to maintain contact with the rational world. The regenerated man has a new mind, and the Holy Spirit easily resides there in truth and harmony. The things of God are reasonable and fulfill the human mind with wisdom.

Ah to join the Psalmist in his revelations in the sanctuary of God! (73) He goes in as one man, comes out as a whole new man!

Hitchens is unregenerated, proudly so of course. None of what we know in our regeneration makes sense to him, and years of eloquent humanistic thinking have isolated him in pride and delusion. I doubt he would visit us here.

Ultimately, science can not save these people, as they are trapped in the laws of entropy like everyone else. They grow old, their bodies deteriorate, their health-preserving efforts disappointingly weak. And all the while they cannot explain how those same laws that demand that complex systems break apart at one time came together with miraculous precision to make life with the power to reproduce itself! When did the laws of complex creation and entropy do the 180?

It's really quite simple, Mr. Hitchens. Love is the preeminent characteristic of a triune God. He knew love before He created anything, and infused everything He made with it. It should be no surprise that He made men free to sin if they pleased, and made a safe and rational provision to save them while upholding the integrity of His Governance of the universe. With what kind of audacity should you or I pass judgement on the creator's kindness?

I still maintain that to believe in atheism I would have to believe that I created the heavens and the earth myself without help or prior experience.

My recommendation would be the sanctuary of God. There are wonderful things to learn in there.

_________________
Tom Cameron

One could argue that the theory of Evolution is also the abdication of responsibility on many levels. But, you are right, he is "stuck in the super-glue of bitterness", and it is not about someone else taking our punishment as if there were never any other human examples of such a thing. There are many human examples of mercy, forgiveness and taking punishment for others. His problem (he is dead now), was not philosophical, but as always with every man, personal between them and God.

I was believing nothing came into something while disbelieving in a Someone, then, this Someone broke into my broken life and saved a no-one.

"I was believing nothing came into something while disbelieving in a Someone, then, this Someone broke into my broken life and saved a no-one."

Chew on that one, Mr. Dawkins... (Thanks, Noah!)

In another life I had some years ago I was a Registered Nurse on a psychiatric ward. I remember how when one of the doctors would take in a new patient who was chemically dependent he would immediately send them to a treatment facility, usually a 4 week program where they would be "detoxified."

I asked one of the doctors why he did that without even talking to the patient first, making some evaluation of the problems he would deal with later.

"They're not ready. They can't hear anything I might say, and I don't have that kind of time to waste."

It was the voice of experience, learned the hard way.

So similar to arguing with an atheist. They aren't ready, many never will be. Their lives and thinking are in denial and delusion, there is no real foundation for atheism that works with rational thought. Filled with pride, bitterness, antagonism and a world view resembling a house of cards they are not subject to reason and love.

My bottom line with these people- "If you are right, I have nothing to gain. If I am right, you have everything to lose."

The existence of love, while tough to see or put in a jar, is the first and greatest proof of the existence of God. Where else could that have come from?

_________________
Tom Cameron

Some would argue that this video has been cut up and so you cannot take it as it is because it is been skewed as a result.

_________________
John