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taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:
It does not matter if the tentmaker site is a product of a "christian" universalist church or not.



I was just making a minor point -ie that the site is not part of any denomination, universalist or otherwise. Its not.

The site's message is throughout made abundantly clear-that Jesus is the Savior of all men and that all will be saved. SO yes indeed the site is promoting universalism.

Again, I was just pointing out that it is not part of a denomination or 'church' it is mainly the ministry of one, Gary Amirault.(it features contributions of many, but he put the thing together)

 2005/4/6 19:21Profile
Heavenlyman
Member



Joined: 2005/3/29
Posts: 51
Australia

 Re:

About Hell, Just a question people, my dear friends in Christ Jesus.

Is there anyone here that actually experience or taken in Hell and back here on earth for real?, seroiusly. I know for a fact that HELL is real any theology, denominational belief, universal whatever, any thing you think that describe HELL, is nothing compare to experience the real thing. It is beyond description in human understanding ... And PLEASE change your ways, and follow Jesus Christ in spirit and in truth. Be real to your self ... HELL IS REAL !!!!

But PRAISE the Lord that He made the ultimate sacrifice so we won't end up there.

 2005/4/6 20:17Profile
Smokey
Member



Joined: 2005/2/21
Posts: 417
Edmonton Alberta Cda.

 Re:

There is a very interesting testimony from a man named Bill Wise on www.united4truth.com Go to the home page, and almost at the bottom there is a posting called Combining an Exhortation on Hell. I found this 1 hr. recording very enteresting.
Greg.


_________________
Greg

 2005/4/7 0:44Profile
Heavenlyman
Member



Joined: 2005/3/29
Posts: 51
Australia

 Re:

[size=xx-small]Qoute:[/size]
[size=xx-small]There is a very interesting testimony from a man named Bill Wise on www.united4truth.com Go to the home page, and almost at the bottom there is a posting called Combining an Exhortation on Hell. I found this 1 hr. recording very enteresting.[/size]

Thank you for posting this site, it's very interesting indeed, but i love it. It state a lot of truth.

 2005/4/7 16:06Profile
adonaisarmy
Member



Joined: 2004/5/13
Posts: 36


 Re:

ALL WHO ARE FOLLOWING THIS THREAD.

I understand your concerns. I have been studying these points for a while now. I'll just share some important points I believe are truths Gods word teaches.

It is very important we grasp who God is, His Nature, That He is an All Holy God. All powerful, perfect. Loving, Righteous, Just, Wrath filled, Jelous God. Merciful, and graceful. To say the least.

He is the same God in both old and new testatment, He doesnt change, so He wasnt a mean God or Angry in the old testament and a loving one in the new test.

God does not change, same yesterday today and forever.

If people were good, God would not be just in sending men to Hell. This is understandable to think this way. But this is not the case.

So if God says there is a Hell, and people will be sent there we must understand why, Are all men really pretty good people ocasionly doing bad things? Or are we inherintly wicked occasionly seeminly doing good things.

Is it unfair for God to send people to hell?

To awnser these questions we must first understand how truly fallen man is.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil."

1. People DO NOT go to Hell because they havent heard the gospel.

Why People go to Hell is because they are sinners(transgressors of Gods law) and that is there just sentence, the punishment for their sin. The wages of sin(breaking Gods commands) is death. They are condemned already.

The Deff of sin IS NOT, not hearing and believing the gospel, and then going to hell because of not hearing the gospel. Sin is Transgression of the Law of God.

God sent His Son because we were Sinners, doomed, and needed a savior. To deliver us from our sin.

So Hell is for the sinners.

Sin, seperates Man from God. Ie. Adam&Eve, God warned them that in the day they eat of that fruit, they would surely die. They died spiritually, seperated from God.
This illistrates God's Holiness, and His hatred of sin. His righteousness, and justice.
But God, was merciful, and and killed an animal, and covered them with its skin. Type and shadow of what was to come.

God first demonstrates that, He must judge sin&sinner, But He also out of His mercy He accept's the death of animal, as a substitute in place of the man. Life is in the blood, so a life for a life.

God justly punished Adam&eve for their rebellion, but because He is merciful, He had planed to save them, and their seed, through His son, whom He promised He would send.

All men, now were born in iniquity, and in Adams likeness, not Gods. We all inherited the family disease of sin.

Before God flooded the earth, All mans thoughts were evil continualy.

Paul writes in Romans, that no body is good, no one does good, no one is righteous, no one understands( Basically Everyone is Doomed, and cannot find God, we are all lost in our sin.)We have all gone astray.
He says that we once were Enemies of God, Our minds were Emnity(hatred) towards God.
He writes All have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
The heart is desperatly wicked who could know it.

He teaches us that All men, are Lost, and Dead in sin. All men naturally love evil, and desire it over doing good. We were all children of Wrath.

So God is just in punishing all men to Hell for their rebellion against Him. It is our Just reward. It is what we truly deserve. We do not deserve anything but death.

Noone can find God, outside of Gods grace drawing them to himself.

So all our enemies of God, lost, and cannot find God, nore desire to, but there sin. So It is Gods mercy that draws men, not man comes to God. No man can come to God except drawn to God by God.

Therefore Salvation is 100% work of God, and His unmerited Free Grace.

THE WORD SAYS, WITHOUT HOLINESS NONE CAN SEE THE LORD! Unles we are made Holy in this life, we will not see the Lord.

Unless one is born again He cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

Unless You become like a little child you cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven.

Rev 21:8 "But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Paul Spoke of Seperation From Heaven!

1 Cor 6:8 " No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God."

We cannot view God through our mindsets, morals, beliefs, we must view Him in the light of His word.

Remember the story Jesus told, of the Rich man and Lazurus. There was no second chance for that man..

Jesus spoke more about Hell then Heaven, why, because

Matt 7:13 "ENTER by the NARROW GATE; for WIDE is the GATE and BROAD is the way that leads to destruction, and there are MANY who go in by it. 14“BECAUSE NARROW is the GATE and DIFFICULT is the WAY which leads to life, and THERE ARE FEW WHO FIND IT.
15“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16“You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17“Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18“A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19“EVERY tree that DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20“Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
21“NOT EVERYONE who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT HE WHO DOES THE WILL of My Father in heaven. 22“Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23“And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
24“Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25“and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26“But everyone who HEARS these sayings of Mine, and DOES NOT DO them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27“and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And GREAT WAS ITS FALL.”

Jesus view sin so serious, and its punishments, he warned that if your right eye causes you to sin cut it out, it is better you enter Heaven with one eye than Hell with two.

The Word of God says, its apointed a man die once then the judgement.

When paul preached he said, God commands all men to repent because He has chosen a day when He will judge the world in righteousness. By Gods standards.

Do you consider yourself a good person, test your interpretation of goodness, to Gods. Gods word says if you break one of his laws you broke them all.

The 10 commandments are a reflection of Gods perfectness, and His requirements for man. They show us what true goodness, and righteousness is, They show us what God demands, in order to stand before Him, and how we All have fallen short, and how we despretly need to be saved, from Gods wrath.

Go through the 10 Commandments, have you ever stolen that makes you a theif, lied makes you a lier, lusted in your heart your an adualter, have you loved the Lord, with all your heart soul mind will and strength 100% all your life? Have you ever not ohnored your parents? Have you coveted anything thats your neighbours? Have you loved your neighbour always as you would be loved? Have you ever put anything before the Lord, that would make you an idolator. Have you ever made your life all about you, lived for self, this is pride, and your falling in the same snare as the devil. He wanted to take the glory away from God, and he wanted to be worshiped.


When you die and stand before a Holy and just God, EVEN IF you have sinned just once, you are guilty, and deserve Death.
Becasue God is Holy, You cannot live with Him. You must be Holy. The only way God could redeem, us was with a perfect sacrfice.

This is Why God needed to send His Son. That is how much God hates sin, and how much we needed redemption, and how much He loved those whom He chose before the foundations of the world.

God cannot be Mocked. Jesus the way the truth and the life, no man can come to the Father but through Him. If your not in Him, redeemed by, You will be seperated by Him eternally.

He will seperate the wheat from chaff.

We have many parables. 10 VIRGINS, these are those the profess Christ, but do not know Him, and are shut out.
Lazy servant, punished to seperation.
Sheeps& Goats.
We will reap what we sow.

Hopefully the readers have a better understanding of the Justice of God punishing a sinner, unless He is in Christ, then the wrath of God no longer abides on him.

If we do not understand Gods Holiness, and His righteous requirements, Our depravity, and our just reward, If we do not understand these things, we will believe God is unjust for sending people to Hell, and we will most likely be self righteous, we will have a distorted and wordly view of God, and His ways.

I highly recomend This sermon by Ray Comfort,
Hells Best kept Secret,
Go to www.livingwaters.com and click on Hells Best kept Secret free audio, it should be thing banner going across page on fire.
This sermon Is a must for the Most Christians of West. Its about Biblical presentation of Gospel.

Well I hope this helped anyone come to the truth.

Blessings Joshua

 2005/4/16 15:59Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: hell

Not so sure there brother...

"Many consider us experts on the topics of universal salvation and proving that Hell is not scriptural."

[url=http://www.tentmaker.org/aboutus.html]http://www.tentmaker.org/aboutus.html[/url]

*Edit, after re-reading what I was responding to here, namely that the site was promoting Universalism, I did miss what Taco was referring to as a [i]denomination[/i], kind of a small point in some ways but nonetheless, did miss it, the reference:

Quote:
I was just making a minor point -ie that the site is not part of any denomination, universalist or otherwise. Its not.

The site's message is throughout made abundantly clear-that Jesus is the Savior of all men and that all will be saved. SO yes indeed the site is promoting universalism.

My mistake.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Had written something earlier when this first came up and shelved it, but for consideration...

Couldn't help but bring up something so glaringly noteworthy from Taco:
Quote:
By the way I am really not trying to be contentious here. If the moderators don't like this discussion I shall be silent. I know it is a very controversial issue. But I am enjoying this. I like to be challenged in everything I believe, try to do it to myself but its not always easy to argue with oneself, I seem to always win. But I haven't been challenged in an intelligent cival way on this issue in a few years. Its good.


Your attitude is remarkable brother, thank you.
Probably couldn't quite concur with your arguing with yourself, my tendencies are more that I usually [i]lose[/i] ;-)

As to the issue here, just an edgewise thought. Though I wouldn't hold to a doctrine of
'Universalism' just out of the shear amount of scripture against that idea, there is a thought that cut's deeply to the core of honesty from this perspective and pleading here with just this small, narrow, exclusive thread of consideration, (my that's a long preface). [b]If[/b] ultimately this ended up being true, would it bother us? Do not mean God's justice, (for Himself) but us creatures, would we be perturbed that those 'undeserving' got spared despite it all? In one sense surely the cross is the end of all argument [i]to those who believe[/i] and cannot grasp the idea that the Lord would drag unwilling participants into His Prescence...But he most certainly could, what could they do about it? (Go ahead and sit in a corner and be miserable)...

That was earlier and to be completely honest here, do appreciate an honest look and study into these things. The aforementioned site not-withstanding and even our own beloved webmaster's wonderfully frank admission;

Quote:
Yes as a rule I would be careful of most sites even including SermonIndex.net The Holy Spirit will lead us into truth we have to fully lean on Him. I am sure there are some good articles on that site, I would recommend some text sermons on Hell which you can find in the articles section. I know Jonathan Edwards published some great ones on judgment, eternity and damnation.

:-o
Gasp! Here even? But it is true...[i]test all things[/i]

"The law is for the self righteous, to humble their pride: The gospel is for the lost, to remove their despair."
~Spurgeon

Read some from "The Wisdom Quotes" on that site as it pertains to 'Hell' and it is not an easy thing to just dismiss them out of hand while at the same time wondering where the counterbalance is. Find that to be problematic. For every argument 'for' is one 'against'.

Where is the 'tension'?
Is there room for "I don't know?"
Is there a possibility that a final explanation is not ours to have on this side of things?

Considering that from the outset that there are some things that are beyond our control...
Did anyone ask us if we wanted to be born into this world? Did anyone get our permission when we are to exit?

Does the Creator of the Universe owe us an explanation?

Has He given us one?

Who determines what is 'just'?
The 'critters'?

Maybe, just maybe, what we have in scripture of [i]warning[/i], of all the other words to be taken into consideration without coming to a final conclusion or 'doctrine of' might be enough to fear and reverence Someone that knows far more than all the collective thought that has ever been generated. This is something that I have always been puzzled by for instance with the 'idea's' proposed by the doctrine of 'election', somehow we want to extract the mystery out of everything to make a comfortable fit into our so called rational minds. In effect what business do we have going there in the first place?

Isa 55:6 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near:
Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Isa 55:9 [b]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.[/b]
Isa 55:10 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater:
Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, [b]but it shall accomplish that which I please[/b], and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Maybe again, if we had just a right view and understanding of just Who God is a 'doctrine' of hell would be unnecessary. The problem with us creatures is we almost always have an either/or mindset with no middle ground for tension and mystery...What I am hopelessly driving at is just Who is it that is deserving of our worship, our fear, our wonder? What is there to be concerned about if the Holiest of all is only a hair higher than our most vivid imaginations come come up with?

We have what we have in scripture of much dangerous language;
"Perish"
"Wrath"
"Sin"
"Evil"
"Wickedness"
"Judgment"

And ultimately some of the question's that have to be asked are;
Why death?
Why the Cross?
Why the flood?

And what are we to do with all the strong language that our Lord used in Mat 18, Mark 9...[i]"It is better"[/i]? All the descriptions of "everlasting fire" of "weeping and gnashing of teeth", "outer darkness", "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."


Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Hard sayings, difficult words, what are we to do with them?

I know I am asking an awful lot of questions and perhaps am attempting to thrust back into all this the [i]tension[/i] of it all, that while it is very hard to swallow some things in our hearts with what we understand of God as the personification of what is true love expressed in His Son ultimately and we chaff and revolt at an idea of all this talk of a 'hell' inwardly and as our friend Taco commented:
Quote:
Although in my experience many still reserve a place for 'the larger hope' in thier innermost heart.

And to be honest I would agree with that, if ultimately God ended up throwing us all a curve ball somehow, and would allude it back to the thought of 'would this bother us [b]if[/b] it was so? Is there not at the same time the sense of this thought;

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 [b]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which will devour the adversaries[/b].

And just as well this consideration:

Heb 2:14 Therefore since the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same things, in order that through death He might destroy the one having the power of death, that is, the devil,
Heb 2:15 and that He might set free these, as many as [b]by fear of death through all of their lives, were subject to bondage[/b].

Why?
Why a 'fear of death', even without someone preaching about 'hell'?
Is it not instinctive?

Somehow we have to regain a High view of God and not dismiss things that trouble our so called 'intellect', nor this idea that the God of the 'Old Testament' is somehow other or has changed because of 'The New Testament', there is a new covenant, but not a 'new' God.

Deu 28:58 If you will not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, [b]that you may fear this glorious and fearful name, YAHWEH YOUR GOD[/b];
Deu 28:59 then Yahweh will make your plagues wonderful, and the plagues of your seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
Deu 28:60 He will bring on you again all the diseases of Egypt, which you were afraid of; and they shall cleave to you.
Deu 28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will Yahweh bring on you, until you are destroyed.

A vast gulf between humanism, which ultimately is the creatures revolt and the Creator of the universe exists...Shall we get the worlds opinion on matters, start up a petition drive and present it to the Most High? "Great god in heaven, we are not at all pleased with how you have dictated this life here, we don't like Your ideas of death and all this punishment, and talk of judgment and so forth, it is very depressing to us. Frankly we disagree with You and we demand that You change your mind or else....we will....Uh, we will...we will have to get back to you on that."

A bit absurd no?

What you or I 'believe' in our opinions is of no consequence whatsoever in this regard. We have what we have as a promise and a hope in just this;
Heb 6:16 For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation is to them an end of all strife.
Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:
Heb 6:19 Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Heb 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

1Jo 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1Ti 4:10 To this end we work hard and struggle, because we have set our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, [b]that is, of those who believe[/b].

Joh 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Rom 3:3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
Rom 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
Rom 3:5 But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
Rom 3:6 God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
Rom 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
Rom 3:8 And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just.
Rom 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Rom 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Rom 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Rom 3:17 And the way of peace have they not known:
Rom 3:18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Of those, two have always stood out as far as a theology is concerned, if I must be constrained to one:

[b]let God be true, but every man a liar[/b]

[b]There is no fear of God before their eyes.[/b]

We need more than anything a return to a high view of God.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2005/4/17 10:39Profile
dsk05
Member



Joined: 2005/6/20
Posts: 3
Kingston, Ohio

 Re: Hell

I thought this was very interesting to find this topic in the forum. I am called to go to the churches in my community, there are 7 in all. And recently my sister met a man from one of the churches that I have been called to go to... as a messager of Revival. So I decided to find out more of what they believe.... and they are called Inclusion..... she is not a believer.... she will not listen to me, she is blinded by this man, she feels she is falling in love. She's been very lonely. Pray for her. Go to www.inclusion.ws to see what they teach. Our God is bigger, but I am outraged when the church brings lies in.... I do not go to any church at the moment, other than the ones in my community as a messenger only.. it is lonely out here. :-(

 2005/6/28 8:41Profile
Welch
Member



Joined: 2005/6/23
Posts: 13
Florida

 Re:

The spirit that is involved in dissuading individuals (believers and non-believers alike) that there is no Hell such as is dispalyed on tentmaker.com is a demon and from the very place that some of you may be flirting with the idea of disproving, through scripture of all places! This does not need to be 'tested' the idea to change meanings in the word of God due to the fact of translating is an old and very common demon and lie. You cannot play both sides of the fence in this one... the whole idea in any subject of searching out the truth because you feel misguided is a lie. The truth is found only is the word of God. The scriptures used to help these fools to bring their argument to the table is the very same scripture that condems their whole idea. It uses the term Gift (Yes it avilable to all mankind but a gift has to be accepted, it's not just automatic)... granted Hell may be derived from Greek mythology but I warn you family in Christ... too much time, sometimes, is spent on the translation of the Bible and what it really means. Family I tell you now that what I hold in my hand that was purchased here in America in 2003 is THE INERRANT WORD OF GOD and although there is nothing wrong with a Christian or othewise education and knowing the ways of the world, knowledge can be your folly. I would go the basic preaching of D.L. Moody and his time spent with Christ before I side with the ideals of an 'educated' person who stakes his beliefs on the interpretation on a single word (which was very comparable to the idea that Jesus was relating to in the day) and his idea of how God should show justice. Friends, Jesus didn't have to die for any of you but by his love for us He did and he warned us in his word that His Fathe is the true judge. These people claim that they've opened themselves to the Spirit and have derived that through that, some mythological ideals and principals of that day in age, the interpretation of a word, and their idea of how God should be just that their is no Hell. My family God's word warns us of these very types of people who would dare pervert the scriptures. It angers me that Satan and his evilness uses these people to lead people down the path of damnation, but I also desire for the lost souls to be faced with the truth and rely on God's grace. One of these writers claims that at one point he was ready to take his own life... my frined this is NOT the thoughts of a steadfast (as the bible calls us to be) and by grace saved Christian but a lost soul. These very writers are a tool of the Devil and need to encounter Jesus wonerful saving grace so that they may then truly spend time with the Spirit. Do not humor these ideals. I spent enough time on the site to read 2-3 articles and I assure you that will be the last time I ever spend their. God IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION! This is not the Holy Spirit that is inviting them and you to encourage and humor these ideas. God says to argue with a fool is folly and he also says flee temptation. Reading this article did not bring joy, peace, and understanding to me as my holy God assures me will come when I am in his midst. I urge you family to take note of the warnings of Christ and his teaching of eternal seperation of man and God. They are afraid! This is clearly seen in the fact that focus on the physical pain (i.e. God torturing people, people in Heaven seeing their family burned, etc.) than the fact of the biggest loss and that is eternal sepertaion of God. Don't get me wrong Hell, as shown in God's Word, will be torment of the Soul but the loss will be greater for these liars than it will be for some of the most evil people (Matt. 11:22) for they have heard the truth and they still make God what they want him to Be (Mark 6:10-12) What purpose does the Gospel serve other than to Save men? Jesus calls for men to repent! If this "universal" faith is true then why does Jesus issue us the Great Commission? Again, salvation is a Gift to ALL men so that None SHOULD perish (that verse in itself shows their will be some that perish and lose the chance of fellowship with God) but have EVERLASTING LIFE. Brothers and Sisters in Christ you may say what you will but I urge you to keep away from these people but only to share Jesus with thema nd to Love and encourage them that they can see the true flame within you comes from Jesus Christ and he is THE ONLY WAY to eternal fellowship with God. I also encourage you to see God's word for what it truly is and that is perfect, no meaning is lost from it through the centuries (Stop spending so much time trying to increase your knowledge from earthly standrds). God will not allow it, that's where His mercy and love is that these authors say dosen't exist in modern Chrisitanity. God is calling, through His Spirit, today to these and other lost souls maybe even some of you people on this board are searching for truth. I tell you right now Jesus is ther only way to Heaven and if you accept Him now and believe that He lived a perfect life, died and shed His blood on the cross to fogive us of our sins ,that will doom us to an eternal Hell and sepertaion from God, and He completed it by raising FROM DEATH and He went back to His home in Heaven to prepare a place for us and He is coming again to take us home then you can be saved right now. I would pray that you stop looking on this confusing and lie filled thing we call the internet and find a local body of Bible believing and Jesus annointed Church to seek out the real truth to all of your life's questions. God Bless and I love you all!

 2005/6/28 14:03Profile
letsgetbusy
Member



Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia

 Re: Hell

Truly a debatable subject. While some commentaries can be good, there is no substitute for the Word of God. I would do a word search for "hell" on a site like: http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/kjv/simple.html and look at all the Biblical references.

The reason I say this is that I think sometimes a manmade theology can reason with all things "not" being possible. Hell must obviously be horrifying if it is God's anger manifested in a place. Luke 12:5 clearly states that the idea of being cast into hell is more fearful than anything else. If God Almighty says you should be afraid of hell, it has got to be worse than we can think of.

To start an additional rabbit's trail, notice that hell is thrown into the lake of fire according to Rev 20:14.

And to start another rabbit's trail, has anyone heard Howard Storm's testimony on going to hell. I saw him on TV, and anyone that knows me would testify I am not one to get on any bandwagons or take heed to just anyone on the tube, but what he described seemed to be a legitimate description of hell, whether or not he went there. It was striking. Anyone agree or disagree?


_________________
Hal Bachman

 2005/7/1 23:54Profile





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