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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Please give one clear scriptural verse for a pretrib resurrection

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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230

 Re: But I was clearly saying Apostasy not rapture, posttrib not pretrib The Harpazo and the Apostas

The "aposacy" is a non issue.It can say either,and not change a single thing.
I have no dog in that hunt.

My point is ; I am free to interpret the ACTUAL MEANING
While you guys must "omit for fit".
Apostacia literally translates "from standing"
I can say "departure","leaving",leaving a previous place of standing" etc.All of which is factual and correct.

Your DOCTRINE however does not ALLOW you that privilege.
That is my point.
You put in there what is not there."falling away from the faith"
Now it COULD MEAN THAT,AND I DO NOT have a problem with it.
But what it literally says is ;" until there first comes a DEPARTURE......"
I find it humorous your camp NEEDS THE MODIFICATION
You do not even need the error,and yet you choose the error as if it is a game changer,when it does nothing for either view.

You guys are misled,and therefore the bizarre statements.

 2014/5/4 12:33Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


hello budgie,
you said;"""The very clear Doctrine that is found in Scripture that is in Harmony is as follows.

There is a Resurrection that takes place at the Coming of Jesus and"""

No there is not.You do NOT have ANY scriptural proof of any such thing.

 2014/5/4 12:38Profile

Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230

 Re: still waiting on a postrib adherent to interpret this

Still waiting for a postrib rapture adherent to interpret this.
It is Super simple. Should be easy.

What is your interpretation of the 10 virgin parable of mat25?

door shut=?
"went out to meet"=?
What was normally transferable,that,at that time was not?

 2014/5/4 12:46Profile

Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266

 Re: In reply to Psalm 1

Hello Psalm 1 I have a very simple and truthful reply to your statement regarding the Resurrection in the Immortal body

I would rather believe what scripture says than any man

Paul described the Resurrection of the Immortal body as having an Order

1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

There it is Jesus was the First to be raised in the Immortal body

When does Paul say that the next Resurrection takes place?

1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

There it is The Resurrection of all in Christ is at His Coming.

No where in scripture does it say that any others have been raised in their immortal bodies, resurrection yes but not immortal resurrections

Lazarus was raised and many others raised by Jesus and the disciples, apostles and even today but not Immortal Resurrections

For it to be otherwise makes Paul a liar and also makes John a liar.

I will trust in Gods Word and I will believe what Paul said, there is an Order to the Resurrection of the Immortal Jesus First and all of us at His Coming,and I will believe what God says, the First Resurrection is in Revelations 20 when Jesus Comes

 2014/5/5 22:45Profile

Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266

 Re: To Psalm 1

Paul also said this from the same book of Corinthians

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

There is a Resurrection when Jesus Comes and it will be at the Last Trumpet, and that Resurrection takes place in the twinkling of an eye

All raised and bodies changed in the twinkling of an eye

Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 2014/5/5 22:50Profile

Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266

 Re: hello psalm 1

I can say quite confidently that in all my posts I have used scripture and always used scripture to interpret scripture

I used only verses where the apostasia word is used in New Testament as well as Old Testament Septuagint

I don't add and I do not take away, not my words but scripture

I know one thing, and that is if Revelations 20 states this is the First Resurrection and that it takes place at the Coming of Christ, I dare not change it or say otherwise

There is a very clear warning in Revelations to not add and to not take away

I must believe what God has said in Revelations, I must accept all that is said in Revelations as being Truth and I must not change it to suit a theory.

Jesus gave the whole Book to the Church

Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

I do only have one choice and that is to believe that the whole Book was given to the Church to prepare the Church and to reveal the Coming of Jesus and what will take place before He Comes

Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

 2014/5/5 23:02Profile

Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266

 Re: to psalm 1

Hello Psalm1, I have some questions you said that the Church is in Heaven during the Great Tribulation

I ask you this one question, what verse states that??

You say that we are not the elect in Matthew 24, then who are you referring to for the verse that states so clearly that the Church is in heaven during the GT, it must say church as you don't accept that we are the elect

You say that the purpose for the Rapture is for the wedding

If this is so why does it say that the Bride has not made herself ready and has not been clothed until the end of Revelation 19 when Jesus is described as Coming to Earth, sounds like the Bride is made ready and finally clothed at the Time that Jesus is Coming to Earth, surely the bride has made herself ready and is clothed when the Resurrection takes place when the dead are raised and our bodies have been changed
Jesus said that this is the FIRST RESSURECTION Blessed are those that are in the First Resurrection

Why do you struggle with the verse This is the First Resurrection, why not simply accept that verse and not try and say that it is not the First Resurrection

I am happy to accept this verse spoken by God and Jesus and John, Jesus and John certainly did not dispute it

They live and reign with Jesus for that 1000 yr period before the New Heavens and New Earth so they must have the immortal body the same as Jesus

I desire to be in the First Resurrection as there is no fear of the second death that takes place at the last Resurrection

 2014/5/6 1:23Profile

Joined: 2005/6/6
Posts: 1025
Campbell River, B.C.


"Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh." Matthew 24:44
Jesus said be ready. Quit separating yourselves into pre-trib and post-trib clubs. (I will not take either position.) Just take Jesus at His word! I say this in love; away with all of your theological arguments everyone! Satan is very clever, and he loves us to get bogged down in these kinds of debates. Concentrate on prayer, on reaching the nations and getting to know Jesus better.

Nigel Holland

 2014/5/6 13:21Profile

Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266

 Re: hello drifter

Thanks you drifter

That verse you have in Matthew 24 is speaking of that same day and hour of his coming after the tribulation after the signs in heaven
That is why Jesus said when you see these signs look up for your redemption draws near
It does not say to look up now
Jesus said these signs are like when we see the trees budding
I will obey the words of Jesus
I will not despise prophecy
I will not have my ears tickled
I will trust in Jesus and not waver
Over 100000 Christians are killed each year
They die for Christ
They watch their own children be killed because they will not deny Jesus
Jesus will come in the clouds after the tribulation
That is his words
Not mine

 2014/5/6 21:26Profile

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