Controversial territory I know, but I came across something this morning which challenged me.But my righteous one shall live by faith: And if he shrink back, my soul hath no pleasure in him. (Heb 10:38 ASV)I am quoting from the ASV because it corrects the KJV sense.The KJV says 'if [i]any man[/i] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him'. The italics signifying that the translators have added these words in the interests of explanation. The 'any man' however makes it sound as though we are dealing with two different 'men'; the one justified by faith, and the one drawing back. In fact, it is the same man, hence the ASV's 'if he draw back'; 'he' being the 'justified one'.This 'drawing back' is the word used of Peter's 'withdrawal' from fellowship with Gentiles; a first step of 'withdrawal' was followed by the second of 'separation'. Gal 2. In some ways the word is similar but opposite to 'hupomeno'; the Greek word for 'patient endurance'. Literally it means to 'remain under' something. The word for withdraw is hupostello; meaning to remove from under.The contrast is seen in this section of Hebrews;Heb 10:36-38 Darby For ye have need of [u]endurance[/u](hupomonE) in order that, having done the will of God, ye may receive the promise. (37) For yet a very little while he that comes will come, and will not delay. (38) But the just shall live by faith; and, if he [u]draw back[/u] (hupostellO), my soul does not take pleasure in him.The writer seems to be referring here to a 'case' of God's 'just' or 'righteous' one, whose 'life' is the product of his faith, and who might 'draw back'. So faith is not a single event but a state of heart, from which 'he' might draw back. What would his status then be; would he still be 'justified by faith' if his faith was no longer functioning?Hence my question; once justified, always justified?
I guess we are talking about the unforgivable sin. I read this thing online when I was really worried about this and it really helped me with the whole question of whether and how someone can 'fall from grace' and I thought it was one of the best explanations I have read. Here is the link - I think it makes sense to me but I wonder what others think about it.http://www.cnetwork.co.uk/leon22.htmLiz
That's a good link, but I wasn't referring specifically about an 'unforgiveable sin' but whether or not a person who has had faith can 'draw back' and consequently lose God's favour, and perhaps later come to faith again... and so on.The question would be what is the state of a person who once had justifying faith but currently has drawn back? At this exact moment in time, is he 'justified by faith' if he is not exercising justifying faith?
Oh yes I see what you mean......Well if you don't know then I definately don't! :-D I always wonder what would happen if the Lord came back and someone was currently in that state. Do you think He would take it into account if they had fallen temporarily but their heart had not completely hardened and there was still opportunity for them to come back and be renewed again to their former faith because He knows what they would have done and the state of their heart? I find this whole area very confusing. :-?
What would his status then be; would he still be 'justified by faith' if his faith was no longer functioning?
I am curious how we might define "no longer functioning?"
I return to my original question. Is the 'drawing back' of our text an irreversible movement? The tense used is Aorist which suggests a decisive moment.
Two questions jump to mind in considering this - where is the quote taken from - that is, what is the context of the quote that the author of Hebrews is quoting (Hab 2 doesn't cover the "shrinks back" section) and secondly verse 39 of Hebrews 10 makes it plain that we are not of those who do fall back to perdition.John said a similar thing in first John - they went out from us because they were not of us.I have always understood this to mean those who do fall back to perdition did not possess "justifying" faith in the first place.Dan/\/\/\
_________________Daniel van de Laar
Is the 'drawing back' of our text an irreversible movement? The tense used is Aorist which suggests a decisive moment....whether or not a person who has had faith can 'draw back' and consequently lose God's favour, and perhaps later come to faith again... and so on.
I have always understood this to mean those who do fall back to perdition did not possess "justifying" faith in the first place.