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 Re: ADisciple

Hi ADisciple,
I think you are referring to Solomons quote not mine. The only mention of an attack I made was in reference to an attack by satan when I was pastoring.

 2013/12/18 0:34
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

"I have noticed that the people who post here never talk about the churches they are pastoring!

Anybody want to admit that they are a pastor?"

Hello My Name is Andy,
and I am a pastor of a Church Called Divine Providence in Brownsville Texas..
Our Church Believes in Plurality of elder, We have 3.. plus we working on getting 2 deacons..
Two of the elders , Myself included have full time jobs outside of eldering and not on payroll ,( I am a teacher in a public school) I really thank God that one of us is full time in the Ministry..

I must admit that I do at times suffer Discouragement

1. Weight of my own Personal Sin and Shortcomings..
2. Weight of others Personal Sins and ShortComings..We Weep much for Backslidden and the lost..
3. Division of Time Between , Being a Good Husband and Father and Employee and elder. ( this is tough)
4. Criticism from in our Local Church and then From other Churches..(even if they mean well , sometimes it still stings)
5. Sermons ..
But through all this " God gives more Grace"

Please pray for us..
blessings
andy


_________________
andy

 2013/12/18 0:34Profile









 Re: ADisciple

Hi ADisciple,
Since I am not sure if you are responding to my post or Solomons I will respond anyway:) I do get your point and agree fully that the one man system is unbiblical and unhealthy. If you get to know me or read my Facebook page you will see that I am well aware and don't have a problem pointing out the glaring deficiencies in the modern church.

But this doesn't help those who are still in the system. They are "drowning" - as one person put it, and they certainly are not going to listen to critics like us. The analogy I used in my previous post was that if our only response is to point out that they have missed the boat, then our efforts are as useful throwing both ends of a rope to a drowning man!

Think about it. I really think we are almost that useless to the majority of these brothers who are so depressed and down trodden that they would take their own lives. Of course in many cases their problems are largely self inflicted or perhaps they were born and raised in this environment and thats all they know? So how will our critical analysis help them in their depression and struggle? It won't. What they need is a friend. What they need is a friend who will jump into the water with them and help them.

An old friend contacted me recently. This man was in ministry but has gone off the rails. His marriage is over and he is an alcoholic. He told me that he is going to call me soon but asked that I just be his friend, that I not preach to him...yet.

This brother is suicidal. Please pray that the Lord will give me the words that He needs this brother to hear and the Lord will bring new life to His hopelessness.

 2013/12/18 0:51
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1773


 Re: Andy

Quote:

Hello My Name is Andy,
and I am a pastor of a Church Called Divine Providence in Brownsville Texas..
Our Church Believes in Plurality of elder, We have 3.. plus we working on getting 2 deacons..
Two of the elders , Myself included have full time jobs outside of eldering and not on payroll ,( I am a teacher in a public school) I really thank God that one of us is full time in the Ministry..

I must admit that I do at times suffer Discouragement

1. Weight of my own Personal Sin and Shortcomings..
2. Weight of others Personal Sins and ShortComings..We Weep much for Backslidden and the lost..
3. Division of Time Between , Being a Good Husband and Father and Employee and elder. ( this is tough)
4. Criticism from in our Local Church and then From other Churches..(even if they mean well , sometimes it still stings)
5. Sermons ..
But through all this " God gives more Grace"

Please pray for us..
blessings
andy



Sure Andy, I will pray for you. Good to see your Church working in Biblical Model. It is always a challenge to run a family, do a secular Job, and lead a Church. Good to see that you are resting on God's grace alone.

I have heard brother Zac Poonen say that our Christian life is a 3 tire building. The Ground floor is our Personal Walk with Christ, level 1 is Family Relationship, Level 2 is our Service to God (Ministry). We can have a strong Level 2 (Ministry) only when Level 0 (Personal walk) and Level 1 (Family Relationship) are strong.


_________________
Sreeram

 2013/12/18 1:16Profile
andres
Member



Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285
texas,brownsville

 Re:

"I have heard brother Zac Poonen say that our Christian life is a 3 tire building. The Ground floor is our Personal Walk with Christ, level 1 is Family Relationship, Level 2 is our Service to God (Ministry). We can have a strong Level 2 (Ministry) only when Level 0 (Personal walk) and Level 1 (Family Relationship) are strong."

Very True, and at times the bottom floors are just disregarded for the Success of Level 2....

My advice for Church planters or Elder who are starting off is:
1. The Gospel must takes preeminence in your meetings ( Christ is the focal point not you)

2. Before Embarking on this task talk to your family ,let them know the Sacrifice they will need to give.. ( if your family is not up to it, wait.. dont destroy your family on behalf of God)

3. Keep things Simple in the meeting.. Prayer, Worship of God, Plain Preaching of God's Holy Word, Sweet fellowship of Believers ( This keeps the pressure off you from trying to come up with new things to get the people in the Doors)

4. Let others handle the Money, or be Open with the Collection, so others can see where the Money is Going.

5. And Elder Know this.. Your accountable to God..

6. Don't rush off and put the Congregation in Debt by getting a Church building... start small, and stay small as long as you can.. ( pressure of paying bills leads to appeasement of the Flock instead of Preaching to God's people..

there is probably a 100 more things

blessings
and thanks for the prayers
andy


_________________
andy

 2013/12/18 6:54Profile
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Awakened, yes, the quote I used was from Solomon's post. I read your post, and wanted to reply to it, and then by mistake backed up and quoted from Solomon's post. Sorry for that.

But you said things in your post that I think are unfair.

You said, "I believe that there is a lot of bitterness in those who have left the traditional church but few are willing to admit this."

And you said, "Come on lets by honest brothers and sisters…let’s just be honest! There is so much disdain amongst us for the traditional church..."

And this: "The bigger question is not what is the cause, (for those are endless)…but what are we doing about this problem as the members of the body of Christ? Are we just sitting on the sidelines criticizing these guys for all the things that they are doing wrong or for being in the wrong vocation or wrong system or structure? Is that all we are good for? That’s actually quite sad when you stop and think about it:("

These are the words that left me, and very likely others as well, feeling very misunderstood by you.

I couldn't live with a "root of bitterness" in me, brother, my Lord wouldn't allow that. And it isn't "disdain" for the traditional church that motivates me. It is love for the people of God, and a great longing to see His glory in the church.

And so in fact I would say that "the bigger question" really is... what is the cause. That's what I would want my doctor to deal with if I came to him sick. Yes, certainly he would deal with the symptoms. But what would be the point of dealing with the symptoms if he never dealt with what caused them, and they kept recurring again and again and again?

Of course I realize that to deal with the symptoms of the problem we are discussing will require a very drastic treatment. Too drastic for most. So we just cripple along trying to cope with it all. I like the illustration I read once of someone leaving the tap running, and then frantically trying to mop up, and calling in some friends to help mop up, and then getting a mop-up program in place, and on and on...

So... all these problems in "the church." Who is going to turn off the tap?


_________________
Allan Halton

 2013/12/18 10:37Profile









 Re: ADisciple

Quote:
These are the words that left me, and very likely others as well, feeling very misunderstood by you.


Hi brother,
I used the word 'we' in what I wrote so I am lumping myself into my description too:) I didn't think I needed to but let me clarify that obviously not EVERYONE who has left the traditional church is struggling with bitterness, but many are. Most people who have some degree of bitterness can not see it, because it is so deep and because they have developed great skill in justifying their take on whats wrong with the other party that they have walked away from.

To those people (not yourself) who still struggle with bitterness, I pray my words will have a good impact on them.

Going forward, if none of what I write is applicable to you brother, then please don't don't feel misunderstood, it is for me and others that can relate to what I am saying.

 2013/12/18 11:39
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Wow...just reading this post and a few others is the reason I hardly post anymore...although there has been some good posts, sad to say -there are just too many that is negative or judgmental.

Many who post seem to be self-made prophets who always know what's wrong with everybody else...they mostly post to tell others what is wrong with them and why there method of worship is more correct...they seem to always know the most correct biblical way to do everything.

If you notice the two main things in this thread is...Pastors are not suppose to get any money from the ministry...the other is incorrect leadership of the church. Most on here, who are not a Pastor of a congregation are so glad that they are not and are highly qualified in correcting all those who are.

The question I would like to ask is do you receive any money to buy food and pay responsible bills to live any kind of lifestyle on the earth? Where do you get your money from...just wondering? Maybe you have a government job, state, county, disability, or other government field that you receive income...now who do you think is paying your salary...why people paying taxes of course?

Now if you live on this earth you have to have food, water, housing, and basic essentials that you either worked for or someone else worked for or someone is giving you these things that you don't deserve. Now Jesus said a laborer is worthy of his hire. Paul said that God has ordained that those who preach the gospel should live of the gospel. Now if you stand and judge one who preaches the gospel if he receives money to pay for necessities in life then who are you to judge another...when you receive money to pay for your necessities.

Now on Leadership...are you spiritual enough to lead others by example...what type of spiritual leader are you?

Wow I just had a thought of how crazy I was to even post this...I mean I just wasted all that time when I have been trying to use my time more wisely...well I'm not going to change you and you're not going to change me...oh well this may be my last post in a while.

Blessings to all....from brother rbanks







 2013/12/18 22:47Profile





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