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elected
Member



Joined: 2004/11/21
Posts: 362
Tulsa OK

 Re:


I Corinthians 14: 1-5

Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit. 3 But the one who prophesies speaks to people for their strengthening, encouraging and comfort. 4 Anyone who speaks in a tongue edifies themselves, but the one who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be edified.


In the letter to Corinthians in chapters 12,13 and 14, Apostle Paul dealt with the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit. Corinthian saints lacking spiritual maturity were seeking after the gifts more than the way of love and speaking in tongues was one of the gifts most sought after. There was this tendency of believers speaking in tongues in the church without the gift of interpretation. This caused confusion, saints were not edified and seekers or unbelievers thought they were out of their minds. for that reason Paul insisted that when corinthian believers speak in tougues in the Church, there should be interpretation or otherwise the believer keep quiet and speaking to himself and God in tongues.


Prophecy was the gift for edifying the church and thats what Paul encouraged them to seek after more then tongues, and he did not forbid tongues, if it was interpreted in the church by the same or another believer.

Its simple and clear to me that tongues is a gift of the Spirit and it included two aspect, foreign languages and angelic tongues. In Acts 2 at the day of Pentecost the disciples filled with the Holy Spirit glorified God before the Jews from many nations in thei foreign languages that they had not learned. In Corinthian Church the other aspect in more evident, they spoke mysteries in the Spirit and they prayed and praised God in heavenly tongues.

The danger is when we see the abuse of tongues or the gift being counterfeited and then we come to the conclusion that its not of God. I dont approve much of what is going today in pentecostal or chrismatic movement, actually a saint of God taught and anointed by the Spirit will realize the strange fire and demonic teachings that are leading many astray and those faithful men or women of God share the pentocostal or charismatic heritage have raised their voices against these abuses and counterfeits but the tide of deception already in overwhelming. Im confident that God has his faithful remnant in these movements as he does in other denominations or non denominations.


Blessings,

Redi


_________________
Redi

 2013/12/2 21:01Profile









 Re:

To awakened:

awakened I am sorry you are stirred up and annoyed at my understanding of what I believe scripture is saying, this is not my attempt. If you are irritated I suggest not reading post that could run with opposition to your believe. I understood that one of the many benefits from SI, is to have dialogue through the threads on both sides of the issue.

I am not sure what is so bad on what I said? So you are telling me that other believers don't feel like Christlike because they don't have the gift? That doesn't happen? Everyone wants to speak in tongues. I know this because I was in the charismatic circle for years and I know from experience that people would work them self up so much that they don't speak in tongues. And the reason for the work up with in the church is because everyone is doing it, without an interpreter. So how does it benefit the brother who is in the church witnessing his or her fellow believers speaking in tongues and he is not? Its causing the brother to stumble on a gift that Paul says its the lesser of the other gifts.

You said: "If a believer is rattled in their faith that Jesus is the one who baptizes them in the Holy Spirit, and grants them the gift of tongues, then it is also possible that we can unwittingly rattle them about their very salvation too! Did you really sense the "witness of the Spirit" when you were born again? Do you see how this brings uneccessary confusion to others. "

Actually I believe the opposite happens is that the believer who witness the "baptism of the holy spirit" and the person starts talking in tongues, I believe that person begins to think.."i am not special", "God doesn't love me".."what am I doing wrong". When a person comes to faith on the Lord Jesus. He is sealed with the Holy Spirit. as in Romans 8:9, Eph 1:13-14,John 20:22, 2 Cor 1:22. And I am certain you believe this too, but what makes a witness is not whether we speak in tongues or have some gift. Its how we walk, live and love. 1 Cor 13:4-7, 1 Peter 1:15-16..

You said:
"This line of reasoning does far more damage to young believers than if we just work it out quietly between the Lord and ourselves and let others do the same. If they are born again then the Lord who is in them will show them that they are faking something or they have the real gift of tongues...they don't need you or I to be the judge of that."

Why is that it seems every believer needs to speak in tongues? I understand this is not the case, but majority want to. But you never hear people say I wish I had the gift of discernment or wisdom, or mercy or administrations. No one is going crazy for those! Your statement also enforces what I am trying to say, if that person finds out it wasn't genuine...then why? Possibly because this person seen others doing so or he was taught how to speak in tongues. and as far as judging...I am not judging a believer and if I was I have the biblical right to do so. 1 Cor 5:12

I have no agenda...this forum was not started by me. The person that started this forum actually had more to say about the subject and probably better than me... just interjected my thoughts and opinions...which I felt I could share. I have been many forums on SI, they are not always pretty and pleasant and that doesn't bother me, I understand that on SI people are passionate.

Not sure what you mean, "instruct you more accurately"? Not sure how to receive that, seems to be a little condescending.

No I am good, nothing else to say in the matter. You believe one way and I believe the other. It wouldn't stop me from breaking some bread with you and having a cup of joe. As long as the main thing is the main thing..which is Christ!



 2013/12/2 21:39
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1330


 Re:

Brother Mike (abideinhim),

Although I haven’t posted in a while decided to post here. Notice what brother Paul said:

-quote
I used to speak in tounges in my early Christian walk as well, and as an AG youth pastor, consented to all 14 fundamentals - including tongues as the intial evidence of Holy Spirit baptism. I can admit to this now, having long ago disassociated myself from the pentecostal movement: every time I spoke in tongues I had the irksome sensation that I was doing something that was unreal.

Being a Russian linguist and somewhat of a polyglot with knowldge of German, Italian and Spanish (and not to mention an anglophile in my own native tongue), I was pretty sure the syllables I was stringing together was not a real grammatic language, but rather sporadic dollups of emotionally-induced babble.

I kept at it, nevertheless, because, as pentecostals this was what we were supposed to do when the atmosphere got hot in the meetings. Everyone else's babble basically sounded the same too; the only difference was the intonation of the syllable-jumbling and stuttering. When more than one spoke, the resulting cacophony could be downright spooky; the little kids would actually get scared!

This, of course, cannot be of God, but when you are young in the faith, it is not so obvious. I am not saying tongues have ceased, but I suspect that 98% of what we hear today is fake soulbabble.
-quote


It seems he is saying that the so called "tongues" he was speaking in-in his early Christian life was to his understanding soulbabble. This seems to be his conclusion, and could very well have been, and coming to the light of this, then he needed to stop in order to be obedient to the light he received.

According to his very words, it appears, that he has stated, that he has never received the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial evidence of speaking with other tongues. He believes that what he was speaking was soulbabble. Now if he truly received other tongues from God then I don't believe he would have come to the same conclusion.

I can say that in my earlier years in Pentecost that I was never truly satisfied with the experience that I had, and some others that said they had received, but there was a few that I believed was genuine.

Although I still have a lot to learn, back in July 2006, What I received, I could never doubt in a million years, it was the greatest filling of the Holy Spirit I have ever received in my entire life and with that experience came a language that I didn't know I was speaking until after I had already started speaking by the spirit giving me the utterance.

The Holy Spirit moved through my entire being and used my tongue to speak as I was yielded to the Holy Spirit. I have heard people say that you are suppose to speak the language that comes to your mind but that was not so in my case for the Spirit came into me and through me with His own mind. The only thing that came to my mind was a thought to listen to the words that was coming fluently out of my mouth and it was another language that was unknown to my understanding but was powerfully coming forth.

I felt so much power during this experience and there also came a feeling too wonderful to describe. I received a spiritual high that lasted around an entire month that cause me to do things I have never done before. I only wish I could say that I was still walking in that powerful experience.

I don't know why God gave me an experience like He did, but I do believe now that God can give one an experience in the Holy Spirit than can cause a person to do miraculous things.

Brother Mike, the ignorance of people does not bother me like it use to did, because in a sense we are all ignorant to many things, but when a person has never received the true baptism with the true evidence of speaking with other tongues, well he can't know something he has not experienced. I would probably be just like those who haven't experienced it, if it had not happened to me. We can't make someone see something that God, for whatever reason, has not shone them or caused them to experience. It is not more important that a person speaks or has spoken in another language from
God, as it is that we be faithful to the light that we have received from God. It is most important that we stay humble before God and walk in the light as He is in the light and strive to please Him in all things.

Blessings....from brother rbanks

 2013/12/2 22:47Profile









 Re:

Hi brother,
I am not irritated, however if anything I said sounded condescending please accept my apologies. The term "instruct more accurately" is how the scriptures describe Priscilla and Aquila taking aside the Apostle Apollos "to instruct him more accurately" about a particular issue.

What I was trying to say (in way too many words) was...

...it is commendable that you have stopped speaking in tongues, because you have a revelation that it was not the real thing, however please do not speak against and assume that no-one else has the genuine gift of tongues.

 2013/12/2 23:29
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Tongues again

Without entering into a discussion of critiquing this article, I would like to share a testimony.

Evangelist Lavern Schwartz told us how his uncle, Andrew Jantzi, A well-known (now deceased) Mennonite evangelist was preaching to a large crowd. Close to the front he noticed a lady who was listening with with rapt attention, joy written all over her face. After observing her reactions he resolved to speak to her after the service. After the dismissal this woman and her daughter, who was with her, came to Bro. Andrew. The daughter told him how much her mother appreciated the service. She told him that her mom cannot understand English at all but understood every word he said!

There are other testimonies similar but am reluctant to mention names but this kind of understanding was not sought by the speaker but God gave it to the sincere listener.

God is not limited by our theology, only limited by our unbelief. Are't you glad that He works in spite of us?

God bless.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/12/3 16:34Profile
used4him
Member



Joined: 2011/9/3
Posts: 76


 Re:

Thank you rbanks, and to the others that are defending the truth in God's word regarding tongues. It seems that those that for one reason or another have not received the gift conclude that it either is not for today, or it is here today, but not valuable or is even fake. It seems also that one could conclude that healing is not for today because they themselves have not been healed!

In my early years as a Christian I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in tongues. It was not me making up words, or trying to make my mouth move, it was totally supernatural. Prior to that, I had people lay hands on me at least 5 different times and pray for the Baptism, including myself crying out to God and yet nothing happened. I had a woman who got a word of knowledge tell me that I had some objects from my past that I needed to get rid of, and that was blocking the Holy Spirit. I did own some occult books, and had planned on getting rid of them, but had them in storage. I got rid of them and that very same day, received the Baptism while I was alone in my car.

My whole understanding of God's word increased remarkably after this experience, and I was able to combat some negative thoughts that I could not do before.

This is not a "selfish" gift in the way that one writer put it. Tongues edifies us, or builds us up, just like reading the word does. If we are not built up spiritually, then how are we going to go out and share our faith to the world?


 2013/12/3 20:22Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Tongues again


You know, my friends, there is danger inherently with ANY gift being counterfeited, I don’t know why everyone picks on the gift of tongues; I believe that it is because no one can understand it.

But there is a fix for that! YOU pray earnestly for the gift of interpretation of tongues! The Bible has not said that you need to speak in tongues to interpret tongues. You guys that think it is “babble” then I challenge YOU to ask God for the interpretation of tongues and then you can be judge and jury and declare what is of God and what isn’t.

God withholds no good thing from us and God is a rewarder of those who seek Him but DO YOU BELIEVE IT? I believe therein lies the key, some of God’s people don’t even believe His word.

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2013/12/3 20:56Profile









 Re:

I'm afraid I do not see tongues as a good thing - the ones I have seen that is. The speakers have just as many emotional problems as non speakers, and maybe even more, and the practise of them does not lead the speakers to live holy lives of complete obedience. Living a holy life is what I am interested in because this is what scripture says God desires. I want Him to be able to use me as an empty vessel, devoid of all self interest and a hard soldier in His kingdom, adept in spiritual warfare because Satan has nothing on me if I am walking in complete obedience.

I don't need a 'payer language' as my English is quite sufficient and I would never chance Satan coming in and fooling me into opening my mouth for his use.

As for faith, I have enough faith to believe that He can keep me from sin, discouragement, loose talk, need for revenge, pride and any thing that He dislikes and I think that more faith is required for these things than the faith you are talking about because the things I have faith for require self sacrifice.

 2013/12/5 7:29
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Krautfrau

Quote:
krautfrau wrote:
I'm afraid I do not see tongues as a good thing - the ones I have seen that is.


I say this with all manner of love, one reason you don’t see this as a good thing is because you, yourself, do not have this gift. So you judge it from the outside looking in.

Quote:
krautfrau wrote:
The speakers have just as many emotional problems as non speakers, and maybe even more, and the practise of them does not lead the speakers to live holy lives of complete obedience.


How do you KNOW that the ‘practise” of these gifts to not lead the speakers to live holy lives? That is a blanket judgment on God’s gifts.

Yes, some or many have stopped with the gift of tongues thinking they got it all but sister, you cannot judge GOD’S GIFTS by the people using because you then judge God.

Quote:
krautfrau wrote:
I think that more faith is required for these things than the faith you are talking about because the things I have faith for require self sacrifice.


I say this humbly that if you have so much faith, then have enough faith that God knows what He is doing. And it’s completely fine if you do not want any of the gifts but you should have enough wisdom to not get in the way of those who do, whether they are “holy” enough for you or not.

God bless you,
Lisa

PS: Our imperfections have NOT taken God by surprise!! Haha He “knowingly” created us ALL fallible human beings... you too.


_________________
Lisa

 2013/12/5 8:20Profile









 Re:

Hi Lisa

Quote:
How do you KNOW that the ‘practise” of these gifts to not lead the speakers to live holy lives? That is a blanket judgment on God’s gifts.



Very very few are hungering and thirsting for righteousness, otherwise it would be what they talk about a lot of the time and even less are getting there. If you know someone with that witness please let me know.


 2013/12/6 8:42





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