Starting over with church (4)

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Featured Sermon - The Path to Power and Usefulness by A.W. Tozer

Discussion Forum : General Topics : Starting over with church

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Re:

Quote:

by Stephen2 on 2013/11/20 12:03:18

///#2 If you are the church you cannot "leave the church". Leaving a group or organization or institution is not the same as leaving the Church. If you take yourself out of the Church you are leaving Christ's Body and thus, Christ. So, your statement is grossly inaccurate.///

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't mean big C church. See what I wrote, ///Is GF parachurch or is it a movement away from local churches?///

Since a parachurch is a local expression of the church, I always see them as a little "c" church. I never NOT see them as a church.

There is only one Church, yet many little expressions, just like there is one nation (America) with many families in it.

Men have made the term parachurch to differentiate what is not of their religious organization/institution. The truth of the matter is that a parachurch organization is a community of believers and that is obviously a part of the big "C" church.

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A.W. Pink left the local churches and isolated himself for the same reasons articulated on this thread. He believed the churches were in too poor a condition. I categorically do not believe he was a liar, but I believe he was very wrong. Brother, please understand, I don't believe anyone on this thread is lying.

Yes, but brethren that are leaving what you call local churches (you have not defined them), are free to associate with others, aren't they? How are they isolating themselves if they are meeting with other believers? "Don't forsake the assembling of yourselves together".

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///Now, you are painting a broad brush that all "local churches" are somehow untouchable, yet you want GF NOT TO BE untouchable. That is a bit hypocritical, don't you think.///

I don't think local churches are untouchable. We should be critical. We should work for change and call for repentance. I have never objected to such criticisms. But you are objecting to my even seeming to question GF. That's what I mean by 'untouchable'.

It seems you have a problem with believers deciding to associate with other believers especially if that means leaving the "local church". And what do you mean by local church? In my city there are churches on most every street corner and you will even find churches across the street from each other, yet they don't talk to each other.

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Brother, I'm asking questions. It doesn't make sense to me that a group which espouses unity would at the same time be a group that is a movement out of local churches. I would like to know why that is deemed necessary. Many of the movements of the past that have started for the same reasons have only become new denominations. The brethren movement started much like this as an attempt to unify believers and became the most splintered segment of the Christian Church.

I see GF as more of a movement towards Christ. I don't see it as a movement away from anything but let's be honest, when you move towards Christ you are invariably moving away from many things. If the shoe fits, wear it.

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///The idea of a one-man leadership as well as the unbiblical use of elders as a voting body is foreign to the New Testament. ///

Actually, the Early Church was about plurality of leadership. And leadership was being a servant, not what we see today.

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Would GF be like the brethren movement in its understanding of church governance?

As far as I know, GF is not a "mother church" which lays down for all house churches how they should govern themselves. I believe (and GF can correct me if I am wrong) that their thrust is that local groups of Believers should look to Christ as their Head and take direction from Him and that they encourage "open meetings" where everyone is free to participate. I have been to brethren assemblies and I certainly don't get the sense that GF is encouraging that. Remember, GF is not a church, just brothers encouraging others to meet in homes and hold fast to Christ.

2013/11/20 15:41

Re:

Hi Murrcolr

Something is happening that is for sure. Not sure what but I feel I need to look around a bit more. I did visit one church that sunday I posted this subject. The church was okay, typical. But my son and I had a great time hanging out together. I usually go to visit a church by myself instead off hauling them all out. occasionally son comes with me.

I'll be praying for you brother!

BTW you have encouraged me! Appreciate it a great deal!

2013/11/20 15:48

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Dolfan I will be praying for you and your family.

2013/11/20 15:50

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Thanks for that Stephen. One thing is for sure in my walk, I feel more closer and have grown more than I did inside the "IC". My bible studies have been better and I have felt I have learned a lot more than I did before. I have been more relaxed since this time. My relationship with God has grown.

2013/11/20 16:55