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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Record Number of Americans Believe Government Too Powerful

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Brothers the persecuted in restricted nations have a far different paradyne then we in comfortable America. First and foremost they ask for prayer. And they generally ask pray that they will not escape the persecution but that they will remain faithful in them.

Indeed the persecuted nations pray we in America will wake up to the urgency of the hour and get closer to Jesus. For persecution is on our shores and will only increase.

As Apolous posted. True freedom is not found in the political institution. But with Christ being in tbe heart of the believer.

Our freedom is not rooted in tbe Constitution. But on the finished work of Jesus on Calvary. This the persecuted understand. This we need to understand.


 2013/9/29 18:56

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


Lets remember that their is an underground railroad from north korea to south korea. Yes God does Call men Specifically to be involved in that Work and to be willing to pay the price if caught, but many of the persecuted are very willing to get through that underground railroad .

Brother Bear, maybe God is calling you to leave the comforts of Arkansas and to work with the underground railroad from north korea to south korea.

I would be willing and I am sure many others on Si would be willing to both prayerfully and financially support you on such an endeavor

 2013/9/29 19:29Profile


I really appreciate the folks who have posted, not in bitterness or personal attack, but in a mature conversation in love.

Bear writes........

"Our freedom is not rooted in tbe Constitution. But on the finished work of Jesus on Calvary. This the persecuted understand. This we need to understand."

This is the essence of it all and has nothing to do with our geographical location............ bro Frank

 2013/9/29 19:31


Proudpappa writes..........

'Lets remember Jesus fled persecution up untill the time that God specifically instructed him to endure it. and than He said : "(if it be possible, let this cup pass from me):nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

When the early church was persecuted, Acts tells us that they all scattered."

Indeed brother, they did not form a well regulated militia and fight to take down a corrupt and evil government, nor did they fight when Israel was invaded. Thank you for clarifying the response of the early church to persecution. Fleeing and praying...............bro Frank

 2013/9/29 19:36

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


RE: ///Indeed brother, they did not form a well regulated militia and fight to take down a corrupt and evil government, nor did they fight when Israel was invaded. Thank you for clarifying the response of the early church to persecution. Fleeing and praying...............bro Frank///

Absolute agreement brother, and we do not need to form a well regulated militia and fight to take down a corrupt and evil government either, and William Penn did not believe in that either. But God did use Penn to influence the religious freedoms that the West is blessed with.

We are not in very much disagreement on this issue.

PS. add I also am against the political obsession that is plaguing the church today

 2013/9/29 19:48Profile

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936

 Is Legislation ever relevant ?

ICC says Yes.

International Christian Concern :

"Relevant Legislation

One of the important ways that we can help Christians under oppression is through official legislation. Take a look below at current legislation that impacts religious freedom.

A great way to become involved is to contact your Senator or House Representative asking them to fight on behalf of the persecuted. When you call, mention these specific bills and resolutions, asking your Representative to support their passing on the House or Senate floor. You can also voice your concern about particular countries where Christians are persecuted, or of universal issues such as blasphemy laws or forced conversions.

Key Legislation:
•Special Envoy to Promote Religious Freedom of Religious Minorities in the Near East and South Central Asia (HR. 440 and S.1245) – this bill was introduced by Representative Frank Wolf (R-VA) and gathered 80 cosponsors before it passed on the House this summer. Now the bill has been received in the Senate and awaits a final vote. If passed, the bill will establish a Special Envoy appointed by the President, who will operate within the State Department and will have the responsibility of monitoring and promoting religious freedom in the Middle East and South Central Asia. UPDATE: Senator Jim Webb of Virginia has placed a hold on this legislation, preventing it from going to the Senate floor for a vote. Please call Sen. Webb's office at (202) 224 4024 and urge him to release his hold on this important legislation.
•International Religious Freedom Act Amendments of 2011 (H.R.1856) – this bill was introduced by Representative Frank Wolf (R-VA) and currently has 38 cosponsors, and still awaits final vote from the House. If passed, this bill will accomplish several things that will amplify the importance of promoting religious freedom within U.S. agencies such as the Department of State, Department of Defense, and the Department of Homeland Security.
•Listing of Vietnam as a “Country of Particular Concern” (H.RES.16) – this resolution, introduced by Representative Ed Royce (R-CA) and cosponsored by 17 other House members, calls upon the State Department to re-designate Vietnam as a Country of Particular Concern, a designation given by the State Department’s Office of International Religious Freedom, for Vietnam’s severe violations of the religious freedom of its citizens."

 2013/9/29 20:27Profile

Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936

 Re: Is Legislation ever relevant ?

Success Stories

Does advocacy work? Here's just a few of our recent success stories:

35 Christians Released from Prison in Saudi Arabia

On December 15th, 2011, 35 men and women were arrested at a private prayer service in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia. All 35 were Christians and Ethiopian citizens. During their interrogation, some of the men were physically beaten and the women were forced to undergo strip searches. Local authorities openly accused them of being "unbelievers" and friends of American and Israel. ICC broke the news a few days later and in January held a conference call with the U.S. State Department, urging the U.S. to take action on the case.

After four months and two ICC sponsored protests outside of the Saudi embassy in D.C., we took an underground pastor who was familiar with the prisoners to Capitol Hill and held twenty-four meetings with Congressional offices in the House and Senate. This resulted in calls directly from our nations leaders to the Saudi ambassador as well as Saudi officials being called to House offices to explain the arrest in person. We soon heard from our sources in Jeddah that orders had "come from above" for the release of the prisoners, who had never been officially charged with any crime.

It appears that local authorities were angered by the order to release the prisoners and delayed as long as possible, but finally, in early August, 2012, all 35 prisoners were released and sent back to Ethiopia after almost 8 months of detention.They reported that pressure from the outside had been instrumental in ending their stay in a Saudi jail.

Justice for Christians in Ethiopia

In the first week of March, 2011, Muslim militants killed one Christian, burned down 69 churches and several Christian homes in Asendabo, Ethiopia. More than 10,000 were displaced in the violence due to the severe losses and fear of continued attacks. ICC was the first organization to break the news about the attacks and draw international attention to the impunity of perpetrators after the violence took place. ICC collected over 1,100 signatures from 50 nations worldwide, and worked with 14 offices of US federal representatives, commissions, and the State Department calling for known perpetrators to be judged in Ethiopian courts. This June, ICC was the first to learn that 579 Ethiopians were sentenced to prison terms ranging from 3 months to 18 years for taking part in the violence. An additional 107 individuals are accused of terrorism and the public prosecutors have brought charges against them in federal court. Eight individuals suspected to be among the masterminds of the violence are still at large, but Ethiopian authorities are searching for them.

Christians Released from Prison in Ethiopia

In March, 2011, ICC used government contacts to advocate on behalf of a Christian brother imprisoned in Ethiopia. After a few weeks he was released and cited ICC advocacy efforts as the reason for the release.

Then, in October, 2011, ICC discovered that three Ethiopian Christians had been imprisoned for preaching the gospel to Muslims. An employee of ICC contacted the prison officials responsible for the arrests and warned them that their detention of the Christian men for preaching was not only illegal, but that it had caught the attention of the outside world. Within days all three Christians were released from prison.

Nigerian Advocacy Efforts Picked up in Nigerian Press

We brought a church leader from Nigeria to the US to highlight the tragic slaughter of Christians that is happening in that country. ICC organized two weeks of meetings with Senators, Congressmen, State Department officials, NGO's, and local churches. These meetings resulted in two Congressional inquiries to the Nigerian legislature expressing alarm at the situation. The Nigerian press picked up on this and added further to ongoing actions enforcing justice for those who have failed to protect the hundreds of Christian victims.

Plight of Moroccan Christians Highlighted for First Time

In 2010, we brought a high-profile expelled Moroccan to the US to highlight the recent deportations of Christians and the underlying persecution of Moroccan Christians. He met with Congressmen who are leading an effort to hold the government of Morocco accountable for persecution. Because of his visit the plight of local Moroccan Christian's was highlighted for the first time in an official hearing and he was able to submit testimony for the Congressional Record.

In June, 2010, ICC brought attention for the first time to the case of Jamaa Ait Bakrim, a Moroccan Christian who has been in prison for his faith since 2005. This has led to other organizations picking up the story; attention and pressure continue to build for his release. Jamaa was also the first prisoner published on our new Prisoner Focus blog.

Eight Months of Work Pay Off
Imprisoned Afghan Believer Freed

Said Musa, a convert to Christianity, was imprisoned in Afghanistan in May of 2010. Within weeks, ICC visited Afghanistan to obtain an overview of the case and work on a strategy to get him released. Since then, we have been working steadily behind the scenes on his case with Senators, Congressional Representatives, the State Deptartment, and the press.

One of our early successes was to get him moved to a safer prison after we received a smuggled letter from him detailing his physical and sexual abuse. Upon receipt of the letter, we immediately met with a government agency to alert them to the case. We told them we would go public with the case unless he was moved to a safer cell. Since this kind of case is highly inflammatory, they didn’t want it going public.

The day after our meeting, the U.S. Embassy in Kabul immediately sent representatives to meet with Said in prison to ascertain his status. Three days after the meeting, he was moved to a safer cell away from Taliban prisoners. Following that initial meeting, we made numerous visits and calls to lawmakers and government officials to move the case forward.

Over the course of several months, ICC’s president and regional manager gave countless interviews to the highest profile newsmakers, including Fox News, Wall Street Journal, Christianity Today, World Magazine, the AP, and the Washington Post, to name a few. All the hard work paid off in late February when we received news that he had been released. We had the honor to be the first to tell the world that he was free and in safety.

ICC Petitions Around the World

ICC petitions have been translated into Arabic and French, picked up by human rights organizations, and have supporters from around the world including many persecuted countries.

 2013/9/29 20:29Profile


Knowing the Lord, I can absolutely believe that God is answering the cries of the persecuted in many and sundry ways. I can easily believe that He may have godly men or at least men who fear Him in high levels of the North Korean government (and other governments) who have been responsible for bringing a little relief to the persecuted.

I believe God still raises up Daniels and Esthers.

I also believe He is raising up "Josephs" in these last days.

We should never underestimate our God.

 2013/9/29 23:30

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


Job 34
21“For His eyes are on the ways of man,
And He sees all his steps.
22 There is no darkness nor shadow of death
Where the workers of iniquity may hide themselves.
23 For He need not further consider a man,
That he should go before God in judgment.
24 He breaks in pieces mighty men without inquiry,
And sets others in their place.
25 Therefore He knows their works;
He overthrows them in the night,
And they are crushed.
26 He strikes them as wicked men
In the open sight of others,
27 Because they turned back from Him,
And would not consider any of His ways,
28 So that they caused the cry of the poor to come to Him;
For He hears the cry of the afflicted.
29 When He gives quietness, who then can make trouble?
And when He hides His face, who then can see Him,
Whether it is against a nation or a man alone?—
30 That the hypocrite should not reign,
Lest the people be ensnared.

Does this apply to this generation?

Jeff Marshalek

 2013/9/30 9:01Profile

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


Daniel 2:
20 Daniel answered and said:

“Blessed be the name of God forever and ever,
For wisdom and might are His.
21 And He changes the times and the seasons;
He removes kings and raises up kings;
He gives wisdom to the wise
And knowledge to those who have understanding.
22 He reveals deep and secret things;
He knows what is in the darkness,
And light dwells with Him.

23 “I thank You and praise You,
O God of my fathers;
You have given me wisdom and might,
And have now made known to me what we asked of You,
For You have made known to us the king’s demand.”

Does this Scripture apply to this generation?

Jeff Marshalek

 2013/10/1 9:15Profile

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