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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : Record Number of Americans Believe Government Too Powerful

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 Re:

Murrcolr writes......

"It does seem we will agree to disagree as it's wrong for us to seperate the two as no other religion, philosophy, teaching, nation, movement whatsoever has so changed the world for the better as Christianity has done. Christian influence on values, beliefs, and practices in Western culture are abundant and well ingrained into the society of today."

I am quite content to disagree brother :) The Jesus that changed my world is not a religion, not a philosophy , not a teaching, not a nation nor a movement, the Jesus that changed me personally is a person. And it's the person of Jesus that came to change hearts, not governments. If you were to go to China or North Korea or Iran or Vietnam you would find thriving underground churches that's " life," the life of the Spirit of Christ in them, is not dependent upon Western democracy or what passes for freedom in the west. Indeed you will find a people that are praying for a hopelessly shallow Christianity in the west that has been corrupted and watered down by a sheer lack of dependency upon their God.

We, as a royal priesthood, should transcend cultures and be in the world but not off it. The truly brave man is the man who stands for Truth no matter which way the cultural winds are blowing..............bro Frank

 2013/9/29 13:42
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE:///If you were to go to China or North Korea or Iran or Vietnam you would find thriving underground churches that's " life," the life of the Spirit of Christ in them, is not dependent upon Western democracy or what passes for freedom in the west.///

If you go to China or North Korea or Iran or Vietnam you would find those Spirit filled believers greatly Desiring to refuge to Western democracy.

Lets be apperciative and thankful to God for the religious freedoms that we are blessed with.

Kingdom Christians such as William Penn greatly influenced the religious freedoms that we are blessed with in the west, lets not forget Gods hand in it.

 2013/9/29 14:37Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 

I consider that the chief dangers which confront the coming century will be religion without the Holy Ghost; Christianity without Christ; forgiveness without repentance; salvation without regeneration; politics without God; and Heaven without Hell. - William Booth

 2013/9/29 15:00Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas

 Re:

Record Number of Americans Believe Government Too Powerful.


gov·ern.....verb

: to officially control and lead (a group of people) : to make decisions about laws, taxes, social programs, etc., for (a country, state, etc.)

: to control the way that (something) is done

: to control or guide the actions of (someone or something)


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Bill

 2013/9/29 15:06Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote: The Jesus that changed my world is not a religion, not a philosophy , not a teaching, not a nation nor a movement, the Jesus that changed me personally is a person. And it's the person of Jesus that came to change hearts, not governments. If you were to go to China or North Korea or Iran or Vietnam you would find thriving underground churches that's " life," the life of the Spirit of Christ in them, is not dependent upon Western democracy or what passes for freedom in the west.

I agree that Jesus changes peoples hearts, but the people are the nations, change the people hearts you change the nation. Eventually if the move of God continues in the nations you mention there will come a great change in the nation becuase the people will have changed.

We, as a royal priesthood are the ambassador of the Kindgom of God we should be reconciling the nations of the world to God.


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Colin Murray

 2013/9/29 15:07Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

I have struggled over the process of time to reconcile the God of the Old Testament with the God of the New Testament. The the Holy Scriptures teach that there is one God and that His nature never changes. That Nature is of the Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Therefore the sum of all Scripture reveals God.

In Psalm 2 we are given this insight...

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the Lord with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son,[b] lest [c] He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.


Now does this Scripture speak to government?


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Jeff Marshalek

 2013/9/29 15:11Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: //I agree that Jesus changes peoples hearts, but the people are the nations, change the people hearts you change the nation. Eventually if the move of God continues in the nations you mention there will come a great change in the nation becuase the people will have changed.//

well said

When ever a nation has an evil ruler, the entire nation (people) is punished, it was so in the Old Testament and it is that way today.



 2013/9/29 15:20Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Something to consider is that It is easy to set in our (HVAC) homes and type on our computers and romanticise the life of induring persecution acting almost as though we are desirous of it.

Lets remember Jesus fled persecution up untill the time that God specifically instructed him to endure it. and than He said : "(if it be possible, let this cup pass from me):nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

When the early church was persecuted, Acts tells us that they all scattered.

When Paul was brought to trial, he fought hand and nail for his freedom.

when the high priest Ananias commanded them that stood by to smite Paul on the mouth.

Paul said unto him, God shall smite thee, thou whited wall:

and than Paul pointed out to him how he had commandended him to be smitten contrary to the law?

Persecution is not going to start in such a romanticised way though, They are first going to take our children and give them to child molestors. and this is going to happen sooner than later, because a great deal of Christians feel that they are to Spirtual to vote or write their representives.

Home Schooling and Godly child training are the first things to go.

I am thankful for the freedoms that God has blessed us with in the West, but those freedoms are being underminded at a radical pace.

The New Testament, the Early Chuch, Godly Men fled perscution, lets not over romanticise persecution or the lack of freedom. lets be thankful to God for the freedoms that we have, and relieze kingdom Christians such as Penn had a large part in influencing those freedoms .





 2013/9/29 16:04Profile









 Re:

Great discussion! Just checking in to see what is going on. As a people we have dual citizenship in this world. (some people have more than 2)

As God's people we indeed transcend the kingdoms of this world along with their various (rudimentary) philosophies. However, God is involved in the affairs of men for the sake of His Son and He is involved through His Body. Because of this, He not only affects individual hearts, but through these changed hearts, He brings cultural and national change, sometimes. Is this the goal? No, I see it as a by product of His work in men.

If God called you to be involved in men's lives in such a way that it went against your theology, do you think you would be teachable (open to new revelation about yourself and God's will)?

proudpapa, I really like many if not all of your responses. Persecution is definitely not something to be romanticised. Otherwise, Jesus would have said, "When you see Jerusalem surrounded, stay put. It is going to be great when you experience more spiritual growth than you ever could have dreamed of."

 2013/9/29 16:50
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 719
San Diego

 Re: A very good discussion!

Thank you Proudpapa for that striking assessment of freedom's mysterious price. I too find that the limited freedom I have at this moment a great benefit to myself and those with whom I am sharing my life journey.

The Christian souls in the slave nation of North Korea are not sipping a cool iced tea and chatting with one another this afternoon on their home computers. Probably none of them have ever had a warm shower.

We would certainly want more human blessing for them, and are actually obligated to seek it. Do we not wish to hear these words from Jesus in the not too distant future?

"I was hungry and you fed me, naked and you clothed me, in prison and you visited me!"

It goes way beyond a bullet point on the Wednesday night prayer card.

I can assure you those haunted-eyed nearly dead, lice infested prisoners in Hitler's camps were sure glad to see some dirty beat up GI's and their guns take down their cruel captors.



Of course as has been noted I know nothing of history.


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2013/9/29 18:44Profile





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