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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37634
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

 U.S. Poll: Most Evangelicals Believe We're Living in the End Times

According to its summer 2013 OmniPoll survery, the Barna Group, a well-respected faith and culture research company in Ventura, Calif., found that 41 percent of U.S. adults, 54 percent of Protestants and 77 percent of evangelicals believe the world is now living in the biblical end times.

When asked, “Do you, personally, believe that the world is currently living in the ‘end times’ as described by prophecies in the Bible, or not?” a startling 41 percent of all participants said yes.

The number was even higher for Protestants, with a figure representing just over 1 in 2 Protestant adults. The highest number registered was by evangelicals, with 3 out of 4 evangelical Christians in America believing the world is living in the end times. ...

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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/9/13 18:52Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5638

 Re: U.S. Poll: Most Evangelicals Believe We're Living in the End Times

So did the early church.

And evangelicals in the 70s, 80s, 90s, etc etc.


 2013/9/14 8:16Profile

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3317


His return should be no surprise to those who know Him and His Word, for they have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to give them understanding of the nature of the times.


 2013/9/14 10:16Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219

 Re: We have come full circle

The early church did believe they were living in the end times. They expected the imminent desolation of Jerusalem at the hands of their eschatological arch-enemy and enemies (Daniel 9:24-27, Matthew 24:15-22, Luke 21:20-24) but were not yet aware of the outworking of the redemptive plan that was to occur in the interim between the two advents of the Messiah.

20 - "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is at hand.

21 - "Then let those who are in Judea flea to the mountains, and let those who are in the midst of the city depart, and let not those who are in the country enter the city;

22 - because these are days of vengance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 - "Woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days; for there will be great distress upon the land, and wrath to this people,

24 - and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled. (Luke 21:20-24)

Likely no one foresaw or understood fully in the early church that because of its ultimate act of covenant disobedience of rejecting its Messiah that Israel would be judged and taken captive and led into the nations thereby causing the nation itself to cease to exist while approximately at the same time God would begin opening the door of faith to the Gentiles (Deut 32:21, Isaiah 65:1, Acts 10;17, Romans 11:19-21). For nearly two thousand years Israel lounged in captivity in the nations and the end time scenario that requires a Jewish presence in the holy land for its fulfillment was on the shelf so to speak. Yet now against the longest of all odds, Israel has returned and is established again in the land. I believe that to focus on Israel's present unbelief ONLY is to miss or miniminze a very important prophetic sign fulfilled in its reappearance as a nation. Against the most incredible long shot of daunting and seemingly impossible odds, there is a Jewish presence and nation again in the place it once occupied during the days of Christ's appearance and ministry. We have come full circle and Jerusalem is once again surrounded by hostile nations and armies intent on its desolation and the eradication of its Jewish inhabitants from the earth. This "controversy of Zion" continues to inexoriably grow and draw many nations into the conflict as the issue of Jerusalem and its ownership will continue to grow as the epicenter of events that will increasingly threaten world peace. The escjhatological end time scenario attested to by even Christ cannot be fulfilled without a Jewish presence in the land. So all things are not as they always have been because Israel has not always been in the land over the approximate past two thousand years. As far as believing that we are living in the end times, those evangelicals of the 70s, 80s and 90s etc. are likely correct because these days are very unique as far as prophetic events are concerned.

Food for thought,

"The church’s failure to grasp the theological significance of the Holocaust is not stranger than its reluctance to recognize the most prophetically loaded event to occur since the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD, specifically, the repossession of Eretz Yisrael, and the formation on its soil of a Jewish state. The reticence of the church concerning the importance of this modern sign is at once spiritually obtuse and a statement of the church’s costly ignorance of the very mystery that is calculated to save it from the boastfulness of humanism (Ro.11:25). It is more than vincible ignorance; it betrays a disposition that sees no incongruity in the divine character if Israel’s failure is final. But, “have they stumbled that they should fall?” “God forbid!” is the apostolic riposte that the larger part of that which calls itself the church has ignored to its eternal loss (Ro.11:11)."

"While the church waits to recover her original consciousness of Israel’s role in world redemption, the nations are condemned to languish under demonic domination until Israel comes to understand Yom Kippur in the light of the cross (Zech.12:10). The sudden and powerful in-breaking of the revelation of this mystery will finally answer the prophet’s question “shall a nation be brought forth in a day?” (Is.66:8)."

(From article "The National Hope In Context" - Jan 2002 - R. Kelly - taken from a larger piece titled "The Historical Impasse Between Church and Synagogue")

I realize my thoughts are mine and may not represent the views of the sermonindex moderator who began this thread.

Thank you and blessings.

David Winter

 2013/9/15 10:05Profile


"The Eschatological Task of the Church

One crucial dimension of the eschatological calling of the Church remains virtually untapped and awaits vital fulfillment. It is the calling of the church to model before the Jewish Diaspora the presence of the departed Shekinah Glory through the power of the promised Spirit and so move Israel to emulation. Thus, we could say that the ‘justification’ (national regeneration) of Israel waits for the ‘sanctification’ of the Church, and world peace the resurrection of the fallen nation. Toward this end Paul labored indefatigably, that through a mature church, (which is always a martyr church), Israel might be impressed of its missing link. Paul was not one to rest short of the goal, knowing that the key to Israel is the church, and the key to the nations is Israel. Therefore, when the church in its corporate ‘fullness’ attains to move Israel to emulation, it attains also the conclusion of the age.

This is manifestly the Pauline perception of the divine strategy. Paul recognized, as we must, that so long as Israel languishes in estrangement and unbelief, so must the world. It is not commended as a panacea, but may we not consider that the church’s anemia in evangelism derives in part from its neglect of the apostolic pattern in going ‘to the Jew first.’ The church has learned well enough that "they are not all Israel that are of Israel" but it will require an historical demonstration on an unprecedented scale to convince Israel that ‘they are not all church that are of the church.’

It is prophetic irony that the rallying cry of national Zionism should be "never again!" when alas, once again, in a final test (‘birth pangs of Messiah’), Israel will be thrust out into the wilderness of the nations (Ezk. 20), where this time a prophetically prepared church (Rev.12:6) will be waiting to lay its life down for the beleaguered remnant, soon to become a holy nation. When the kingdom is restored to Israel after a cleansing by fire, the creation will have its Jubilee of rest.

"What shall the receiving again of them be but life from the dead.""


I realise that the implications superficially could be that Reg Kelly is saying that until the whole church recognises Israel's part in redemption then redemption will not fully come. Of course this is scriptural in the sense that……. "What shall the receiving again of them be but life from the dead." is Scripture. Without knowing Mr Kelly's full understanding however I can see that the implication here is what is happening in reality. This means that the true church does not need to change its position and go after Israel, it can follow the Lord's command and go after the nations just as well. Therein lies the eschatology because before the nations are saved (sheep nations) the true church will be gone and have returned as well with the Lord.. Only then will Israel experience the removal of the veil. Its all a matter of how one is lead to understand Scripture.

 2013/9/15 10:53


I don't believe that many people REALLY BELIEVE they are living in the end-times. They may say they do, but on the whole, their lives (their desires and pursuits) do not reflect their words. There would be widespread persecution in America if Barna's poll was really true and that many people were sold out for God. Of course, to be fair, they did not say they were sold out for God, just that they believed they were living in the end-times.

This is all part of the watering down of today's Gospel. The idea that you can have proper theology without a proper walk.

 2013/9/16 1:47

Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


by just-in on 2013/9/15 22:47:01

I don't believe that many people REALLY BELIEVE they are living in the end-times. They may say they do, but on the whole, their lives (their desires and pursuits) do not reflect their words. There would be widespread persecution in America if Barna's poll was really true and that many people were sold out for God. Of course, to be fair, they did not say they were sold out for God, just that they believed they were living in the end-times.

This is all part of the watering down of today's Gospel. The idea that you can have proper theology without a proper walk.


Perhaps it shows us how many are living deceived. They believe they can live however they like and still walk with the LORD. It does say that there will be those who call out LORD LORD...

God bless

 2013/9/16 10:32Profile

Joined: 2006/9/16
Posts: 2219

 Re: Reply for amrkelly

Thank you for your thoughts.

The reason for my thoughts was that I was speaking with someone not long ago on the subject of the end etc. and their comment was that nothing has changed and all things are as they have always been therefore all one can do is be ready at all times for the coming. I like the attitude but yet I replied that I didn't think all things were the same because although they are in present unbelief Israwel has again become a nation and the end time scenario is impossible without a Jewish presence in the land. Though God's sanction and blessing is not on the nation as of now He still has allowed this present return to occur and I think it was a prophetic milestone that was reached. If the evangelicals who believe we are in the end times don't know all the ins and outs of why they believe I still believe they have been given a important prophetic sign that could help them.

I read your comments and had a problem of sorts following you entirely. It wasn't a big problem and I'm sure it's my end that's not clear. I don't advocate not going to the nations in regards to the Lord's command to do so. I also don't advocate focusing one's attention entirely on the pursuit of Israel to the ignoring of others. Yet Paul was commissioned as an apostle to the Gentiles and during his missionary travels he usually went first to the Jews in a particular area before approaching the Gentiles. So Paul the missionary and apostle to the Gentiles practiced "to the Jew first." It's likely a under emphasized aspect of today's outreach by the Church but I'm not the one that all opinions should revolve around. That's just my opinion. And it's not like many good things haven't gone on before now in regards to outreach to the Jewish community. I hope and pray it continues. If Israel is going to be thrust again into the wilderness as part of God's final chastisement and covenant pleadings with them then it might not hurt the Church to begin to prepare to be a witness and friend to them during this time since the Church and Israel are not to be the most popular of entities during this time. Your soments about the true church being gone etc. before the nations are saved is where I lacked understanding. I'm not sure if you were referring to a pre-trib rapture or the second coming. Likely you were referring to a pre-trib rapture when the true church is supposedly to be taken. I understand also that the nations will be dealt with also at the second coming. The most intense part of the end will be the final half of Daniel's 70th week or the final time of trouble known as the tribulation covering approximately three and a half years. Many believe that many of Israel will come to the Lord during this time along with many Gentiles. What type of eschatological outreach to the Gentiles or to Israel is being prepared for if the attitude is that the true church won't even be involved a whit during this time because it will be gone? God's mouthpiece to others regarding Christ can very well be articulated through His during this time as they are used as amabassadors of reconciliation. What eschatological outreach will there really be and how limited in scope might it be if the Church is not present? How does the belief that the Church will not be present affect present preparation?

I realize we just spoke of some of this in another thread. Meanwhile, I've got to go for now.

Thank you.

David Winter

 2013/9/16 11:26Profile

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