| Strange Fires- am I the one deceived?|
I'm slightly editing this- as it was originally a response to the article by Zac Poonen concerning deceivers in the church. I copied and pasted, but forgot to edit.
I've been to a lot of churches. I've visited non-denominational as well as various denominations because there seems to have been such a shift. One cannot count on the truth being taught in a church simply because of its doctrinal statement, and one cannot assume the Spirit of God is in a church because of it's great traditions.
Ive witness churches with great solemnity concerning the things of God, yet there was strange doctrine.
I've witnessed a seeming love toward God and good teachings among congregations where the pastor told so many Jokes that there was a cackling spirit in the midst that was distracting from the teaching...
I've seen what started good turn towards forsaking order and following after feeling and priding of being drunk in the spirit.
Then there's that spirit of Jezebel who is ushered in and given honor... Money is always taught as not being an issue- and yet it is always taken up for the traveling 'prophets' who are invited in to tell you your future.
In all these churches there are kind and loving people who seem to love God, though I never seem to get opportunity to talk with them. They may be better Christians that myself, and yet, I believe that what I am seeing is from God and I don't quite know what to do with it.I cannot make such a place my home. If it hardens me and makes me bitter- then what good is seeing with spiritual eyes? I pray for the members of Christs body and move on, in search of a fellowship who I don't know what they look like- only that I will see something of Gods Spirit prevalent more prevalent than the strange things I hear and see by the permission of it's leaders.
I view just about all of the "good" teachings Ive heard from local pulpits as being so full of distracting and useless time consuming "fillers" that it's members become fat yet are never quite nourished. Never quite have their gaze transferred from the object to the Savior.
Yet in all these observations is it possible that I am the one so deceived as to keep me isolated? I have become somewhat satisfied with staying home and praying for God to bring some who love Him wholeheartedly to my city to start a church? Is it really possible that there is NO local church here except scattered members of Christ's body who sit at home or in these places? I do not want to sit in on what is so often clearly hollow or fatty teaching, and yet, sometimes I wonder If I am the one who is deceived by my unwillingness be in those places.
| 2013/8/30 13:12||Profile|
| Re: Strange Fires- am I the one deceived?|
HA! I always laugh when I see these threads.
There is very little danger of actual "strange fire" in the US.
To have "strange fire" means there is legitimate fire around to compare it to.
The real issue in the US church is that there is virtually NO REAL FIRE in most places. If and when actual Holy Ghost fire does show up there are normally more than enough spiritual fear mongerers and wet blankets to put it out. If it appears in a way they do not approve or endorse they refuse it... or often actually attack it thinking it is the enemy. After all....God would never move in ways they did not approve of! The very idea!
Before anyone gets their knickers in a knot over "strange fire" why don't they demonstrate some real Holy Spirit fire?
Demonic powers are doing very little counterfeiting in the US. There is very little real happening so their is no need to counterfeit anything.
It always amazes me that those who scream loudest about, "watch out...strange fire...don't be deceived" rarely, if ever, can produce any real power of God. Produce the real thing and then the counterfeit becomes evident.
Pray down conviction on your city, bring cripples out of wheelchairs in the mighty name of Jesus, confront and cast out the spiritual strongholds in your community, break the back of the the lack of conviction of sin in your area, tangibly demonstrate the power of God to confirm His Gospel message with supernatural signs following by healing the sick in front of people.
All you have to do is bring God's real fire and the demonic counterfeits pale in comparison. After all....He is the real fire. All the enemy has are counterfeits!
Dear God...please help our weak anemic church of America to quit walking in such fear and glorifying the enemy by giving him far to much credit and YOU FAR TO LITTLE!
Is anyone picking up what I'm putting down? Any thoughts of "strange fire" are not the issue at all. The issue is that there is no real fire being demonstrated. Go demonstrate some real fire. Strange fire will be seen for what it is... a cheap plastic fake imitation that the enemy puts out. It can't stand in the presence of the real powerful, healing, delivering, convicting fire of The Holy Spirit!
| 2013/8/30 17:48||Profile|
| Re: Strange Fires- am I the one deceived?|
I can understand what you are going through because I have been there. I believe your observations are real. However, allow me to say this, there are always 7000 who have not bowed their knee to Baal. Unfortunately, even Elijiah with all his zeal and fierce loyality to God was so entrenched in this battle that he somehow failed to connect with these 7000. He was caught out in a lone hero syndrom. He missed out on blessed fellowship with the remnant. They could have strengthened him and he them.
He could have taken on Obadiah's example. Obadiah hosted 2 x 50 prophets and fed them with bread and water, speaking figuratively of the word and spirit of God.
I see it time and again that Christians come out of the babilonic pseudo-Christian systems but fail to seek out new fellowships.
The bible says in John 10:12
But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
We think that the wolf just devours sheep, but we forget that his other tactics is to scatter those whom he cannot devour. Scattered sheep without a shepherd easily fall prey to further attacks, lonliness, fierce elements of nature, bitterness and malnourishment.
May I urge you to cry out to God to connect you with likeminded people in your area. I am sure there are some around.
After coming out of a hyper-charismatic church I went to several other places for a season. Finally we found the right place, though it is quite a journey.
| 2013/8/30 18:58||Profile|
| Re: |
I did not put enough thought into the title of my post. I really didn't mention the word strange fires at all. I can see that you are very passionate about the subject and
you have a point, I haven't seen miracles to even say they resemble the real deal, so it's not even counterfeit but call it what you may, it's not God honoring and I have found myself wondering if I have completely missed it by staying away from these churches.
Thanks. I appreciate the encouragement. I boiled over and in doing so, thought to shout out and see if anyone sees something that I'm missing. I need to attain in myself the thing that Im looking to find, and yet, I feel it is so difficult without being surrounded by like-minded believers.
God has given me one person in my area to walk with. How thankful I am for that!!!
| 2013/8/30 22:17||Profile|
| Re: |
"We think that the wolf just devours sheep, but we forget that his other tactics is to scatter those whom he cannot devour. Scattered sheep without a shepherd easily fall prey to further attacks, loneliness, fierce elements of nature, bitterness and malnourishment."~narrowpath
Wow- I've never understood John 10:12 in that way. That's very interesting!
Thank you again.
| 2013/8/31 0:04||Profile|
| Re: |
I know exactly what you mean by strange fire. I've been to several non-denominational churches and I know how you feel. Just keep praying that God will bring you to the saints in your area.
We've been through quite a bit while dealing with some of these type of churches. To make a long story short, I couldn't keep going to a church that blatantly taught error which could borderline on the heretical.
God will guide you into the right fellowship, but it just might not look like what you're accustomed to.
My prayer is with you.
| 2013/9/10 19:17||Profile|
Los Angeles, CA
| Re: Strange Fires- am I the one deceived?|
hi onemite, just wanted to encourage you to stay strong and keep seeking the Lord and He will make your paths straight. to be honest, i have been in a very similar place in my walk as you and it definitely hasn't been easy with many moments of discouragement and loneliness, and "why God, i don't understand Your ways" moments, but that is the very thing about the Christian walk, it is filled with many pitfalls and dangers, but God promises to faithfully lead us through it all and finish the work He started in us. if it was easy, it wouldn't require faith, but no, it is difficult, and the more difficult the journey, the greater the glory we can give to Christ through faith as we lean not on our own understanding, but His grace and the leading of His Spirit in us.
brother solomon101, i just want to exhort you in love to strive to speak with gentleness and grace. personally, as i was reading your comment, the tone of it really didn't settle well in my heart and it felt very attacking instead of exhorting. onemite was sharing with us on the forum what he/she is going through and is in need of comfort and encouragement, not someone to try to prove a point over what was being shared. now i am not saying that we forsake truth for the sake of 'love' or anything like that, but every situation calls for wisdom and self-control in how we handle things. unbridled passion, even for something that is 'right' can place you in the wrong before God. i am reminding myself as i write this because i struggle with this a lot myself and know the damage that can be done so please understand where i am coming from. praying and trusting that you will graciously weigh what i have said :)
| 2013/9/10 20:51||Profile|
| Re: |
I would agree with tbsounde2 - the response didnt sit right with me from Brother Solomon.
| 2013/9/11 11:14||Profile|
| Re: Some thoughts|
I am going through this same thing right now.
Read ephesians 4.
1) I want to encourage you to push for truth and godliness within a church, unless God has blatantly told you to leave. It is nothing but pride that causes a believer, who sees the problems in the church, to leave without laboring for a change. I have had to come to grips with that. I cannot do this on my own. And, unless the Holy Spirit tells me to leave, I would not be right in doing so. An exodus out of the established church is not the answer unless we firstly push for reformation.
2) I want to encourage you to, while you pray, also evangelize and make disciples. Couple your faith with action. You may already be doing this, but I wanted to at least encourage you to continue.
You are not right in what you say. "For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect." These are not trivial signs and wonders. Jesus did not say we would know the true from the false by the quality of signs, but by the fruit that was bore.
| 2013/9/11 13:32||Profile|