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rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Br Robert wrote:

Quote:
Would any of you brethren care to share personal testimonies of Total Victory over Sin?



I posted this from the thread, Live\walking in the Spirit.

" I would like to give you one example of how the Lord disciplined me about three years ago.

Six years ago I was present for the opening of a church plant in our area. It soon qualified as a Calvary Chapel affiliate. During this time the Lord had begun to stir in me the calling into ministry. My pastor, then 29 years old, plugged me into varios ministries. I soon was given the responsibility of leading a men's fellowship group in our small congregation. I also began to seek out ministry training at a branch campus of Calvary Chapel Bible college.

I met many people during this time. I began to strive for position in the church. I also recognized that others that I met along the way in the various churches, strived also for position in the church. It was a good thing to land a paying job in an established ministry. Looking back now, I can see the uglyness of my sin. But the Lord is faithful to work out the clay as He saw fit.

You might remember recently that I posted a thread a "fireman and Christ." My brother Bob was a man who had walked with the Lord for a long time. He was much closer to the Lord because his nature was more like Christ. Well, back about 3 years ago, Brother Bob walked into our church and soon rose in the congregation because of what the Lord had worked in him. One day my pastor came to me and told me that Brother Bob was going to take over the men's fellowship ministry. That news hurt my flesh really bad. I was consumed by this event for days, but I submitted without much outward signs. Remember what Jesus said to the Pharisees, "you are like white washed tombs on the outside, but you are full of dead men's bones on the inside." This Scripture speaks well of what was going on inside of me.

About two or three months passed, and the Holy Spirit convicted me one day before a prayer meeting. The Holy Spirit brought a thought to my mind that I had thought soon after I was relieved of the men's fellowship ministry. This is the thought that was brought to my mind that day. "It's okay, Brother Bob can have the men's fellowship for now, he will die of Lou Gerihgs desease someday, and then I will again head the men's ministry." Then the Holy Spirit impressed upon me that I was required to confess this thought during the prayer meeting that night. I began to rationalize that no one needs to know, what is past is past. Yet the Holy Spirit did not let up. I experienced a huge amount of guilt that evening. Well, during the prayer meeting I submitted to the conviction and direction that I received earlier. It was a time of sobbing and a time of washing that I will not forget. It was a time of breaking and humbling that has continued to teach me lessons even unto today.

This is one testimony of what my Lord has worked in me. I have learned alot about what it means to strive for position in His church and the ugliness of that sin as He sees it."


Two things I know. First, I have experienced the goodness of how in God's wisdom He worked this particular root of sin out into the open. He brought my sin out of the darkness into the light. I have experienced the washing and refreshing that comes through obedience to His command. I could not have done this in my own strength.
All glory be to His name.

Secondly, because of what God has worked in me pretaining to this particular sin in my life, when I recognized the attributes of that sin wanting to rear up again, I recognize it for what it is. And because I have tasted the goodness of God that leads to repentance, it is much easier now to let that old sin die before it takes root again.

I no longer desire to strive for position in the church. I just go day to day looking forward to what God has me do. I know that He has called me into ministry, when and where only He knows.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/13 15:56Profile









 Re: Jeff

Oh dear brother, if it involves coveteousness in ministry, I've been there. Oh thank God, I have been delivered. But I still have to guard my vessel, and not entertain these temptations. I have to be content with those things such as I have.

I would ask that you do yourself a huge favor and read the following prayerfully:

http://www.awildernessvoice.com/posturing.html

You will not find a better article on this subject.

Striving for "position" is not the way of the Lord Jesus Christ. We simply follow the Holy Spirit second by second, and give thanks for the places He opens doors for us to be.

There is not a person on this planet who would like to be in "full time ministry" more than I. Yet I am in full time ministry because of the place God has put me. It's not a place of my choosing, but His. Therefore, I dare not miss what I'm doing now, or the hope of what may follow will perish. It's all in His timing and His provision, not our own.

Tozer said that God will "crucify without pity, those whom He wishes to raise without measure". I find comfort in that, even in my difficulties. I trust you will too.

Finally, I simply cannot believe that anyone reaches a place of sinless perfection. Not even Paul did that. God said that His grace is sufficient. It is sufficient for Paul, and it's sufficient for you and I. Does this give us liberty to act carnally and after the flesh? God forbid. But we have an advocate with the Father. Jesus Himself pleads our case on our behalf, and His closing arguments are always that the price has been paid in full for our sins. Glory be to God, He ought to know. So let us all join together in one accord and give Him the glory, honor and praise. Alleluia.

 2005/5/16 7:52









 Re:

I love what Duncan Campbell said "You'll never be in the position where it is impossible for you to sin. But praises be to God that you are in a position where it's possible for you not to."

 2005/5/16 9:41
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Br Lahry wrote:

Quote:
Finally, I simply cannot believe that anyone reaches a place of sinless perfection. Not even Paul did that.



I agree with your position 100%. The sin that God showed me is just one of a million that are part of my old man. I am waiting to share about another sin soon. What I have learned is that follow Christ means that He will convict me of the sins that He is currently working on in my life. This is why it can only be through Christ that we learn of His righteousness. If we live without Christ, then we are subject to following the curse of the law. In our own mind we come up with what we believe is our duty to try not to sin. Yet I have found that it is only by following Christ that He can and will deliver us, and bring refreshing and washing of our hearts.

Paul said something to the effect, that he battles daily to keep his body in subjection to Christ.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/16 10:41Profile









 Re:

Paul gives the problem:

Romans 7:19 "For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice"

And then the problem again:

Romans 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?"

[b]AND THEN HE GIVES THE WONDERFUL ANSWER![/b]

Romans 7:25 "I thank God--through Jesus Christ" our Lord!

 2005/5/16 21:31
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Again responding to Br. Robert's question:

Quote:
Would any of you brethren care to share personal testimonies on Total Victory over Sin?



What I am about to share is embarrasing, but all sin should be embarrasing once you have come into a relationship with our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Again another humbling experience brougth about by my Savior as a testimony of His grace extended to me.

Masturbation was something that I had practiced since I was a teenager. It was something that I did to satisfy my flesh. Then at the age of 40 I committed by life to Christ. About 5 years into my walk the Holy Spirit would begin to convict me during this practice. I remember asking the Lord is it a sin? Again the conviction came down upon me. Yet, I continued. Everytime I was seeking to satisfy my flesh, the Spirit was there. I would justify my actions as a harmless activity. I would say, just a little sin, it isn't hurting anyone else. Surely, Lord, I can keep this can't I?

I tried being hard of hearing. I tried tuning Him out. Well this continued for a time until I went for an annual medical checkup. Everything was normal except that my PSA test came back with a value of 8. A PSA test is used as an indicator for prostrate cancer. A value of 8 is considered high. When the doctor told me of these results, the Holy Spirit brought to my attention the nature of my rebellion. The Spirit linked my sin with this event. I meditated on this significant event for the next week. And this is what I learned.

God is holy and I am called to be holy as He teaches me. God will not allow you to keep doing a sin that He has commanded you to stop. He expects me to obey, period!

I made an oath to Him that week that I would stop. I learned alittle about the fear of the Lord that week.

This verse comes to mind:

Heb. 12:28 Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. 29 For our God is a consuming fire.

Well I went back for another test and this time my PSA count was less than 2. Shortly there after, again the Spirit called me to testify of this event in my life. Again I was humbled because of what the Spirit commanded. I shared with the men's group of our church. This also became a time of renewing and refreshing. When the men heard my testimony, they all began to be more transparent with their own struggles, their own sins. Humility began to take root amonsgt the fellowship. Sin is an ugly thing. It reveals our nakedness before the Lord. He wants to clothe us with the robe of righteousness. How can we be filled with His Holy Spirit if we continue in sin?

Finally, I have not commited that sin again. There are times when I am tempted but I call on the name of my Lord to deliver me from that temptation. He is faithful.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/17 11:18Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Thanks for the testimony Jeff, I am sure that must have been uncomfortable to post.

Victory in that area came for me about three years after I began to walk with the Lord. I knew this practice was an unholy contradiction to my claims of being born again. In severe conviction I one day stood on Romans six, and declared that when God said I was dead to this sin, that He was correct, and that I was a slave to Christ and could no longer give myself to this practice (not to mention pornography)- I reckoned myself dead to these things - and was delivered from them.

Likewise, I used to play role playing games (Dungeon's and Dragons, etc.) for at least 20 hours or so every week of my adult life (I started as a young teenager, yet nearly twenty years later I was just as addicted as ever). After I found the Lord I began to come under conviction that the way I spent my time was not honoring to God - I was supposed to love the Lord with all my mind, soul, and strength - but I was spending all my efforts on my own leisure - and dark pastimes seemed to be my preference. It was sin, and I one day repented of it all - tossed out thousands of dollars of paraphernalia and was completely set free from the bondage to them.

Likewise with stolen software, likewise with bitterness, and I could go on the list is long.

Now, it is because I immersed myself daily in the word of God and prayer that I found strength to do these things.

In a word, I made the -outside- of my cup clean.

Granted, this sort of "victory" is common enough amongst those who are serious about God, holiness, and sin.

But this isn't the kind of "Total Victory" Brother Roberts is fishing for.

The victory that I have described from my own testimony is the victory that was easily found in any of the Pharisees. Christ described my "victory" over sin as a cleansing of the outside of the cup. I stopped committing the act of sin - even though my heart was still wicked. All I had done was put a big, self righteous cork on sin, and thanked God as though God had done it.

Deep down in my heart though, I knew the truth - I wasn't free from the sin, I had just developed a better way of dealing with it. I wasn't giving into sin - but I wasn't free from it either.

Perhaps an example might help to illustrate what I am getting at. A homicidal pedophile is captured and sent to prison for twenty five years for his crimes. After twenty five years he is still a pedophile even though he hasn't committed an offense all the while that he was in prison. His lack of opportunity has suppressed his criminal behavior - but it hasn't cured it.

Likewise, a man can develop a way to suppress the outward act of sin and even believe it to be "victory" but it isn't the sort of victory that Brother Roberts is talking about.

I can tell you that I have had a lot of the former kind of "victory" - the "giant cork" variety - where I train myself to resist sin at all costs - and eventually develop the godly habit of making no provision for my flesh to fulfill it's lusts.

I believe this sort of "victory" over sin is no victory at all, but the penultimate expression that the Pharisees had already acheived.

And the Lord speaks to this sort of victory with the same message he gave to the pharisees - the outside of the sepulchre is clean (that is, you are not outwardly commiting gross sin), but the inside it is full of dead men's bones.

The first time I was called upon to preach, I kept myself under such guard, that the whole week prior to the sermon I was moment by moment in prayer and fasting. That week I managed to keep myself from sinning any known sin. Guess what? I still wanted to sin - nothing changed. All I had done was give a supreme effort, and in the strength of that effort I managed to keep the outside clean for a week - but inside I hadn't changed a bit.

The "victory" that I am seeking is not from outward sins - I have walked as a Pharisee long enough - no, the victory that interests me is the one where Christ cleans the inside of me so that I have no more desire to sin. I want to hear testimony from people who no longer have any desire whatsoever to sin in any way shape or form.

When a man speaks of freedom from sin, I want to hear that he is really free from sin, and not just free from one of countless sinful habits.

I don't say this to belittle your victory in any way Jeff - Lord knows your testimony is a good one. Rather I say this because I do not see that your testimony, encouraging as it is, has answered the challenge given by brother Roberts.

In training,

Dan
/\/
\/\


_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/5/17 12:21Profile
TonyS
Member



Joined: 2005/1/29
Posts: 154
Kansas City, Missouri

 Re: Freedom from Sin

Dan wrote:

Quote:
When a man speaks of freedom from sin, I want to hear that he is really free from sin, and not just free from one of countless sinful habits.



This is a great word, in the last year I have heard countless Christians talk about walking in Victory. Some stating that they now walk in greater victory than they have ever known.

But upon further investigation so many times what is really being said is just what you have questioned. Victory for many is simply they are not looking at pornography on the computer. Or they are not smoking cigarettes, or they are not swearing as much ect….

Let me add, how thankful we are to God as he delivers saints from these bondages spoken of. For so many, they desperately now need to go on with Christ. The house is swept and clean, now fill it with all the Glory that Christ offers.

Jesse wrote:
Quote:
God has not charted a course which is impossible to sail. Nothing shall be impossible for God. So long as God is the Captain and Commander of the ship He can and will sail it wherever He so pleases. Certainly mutiny against the Captain and Commander is possible on our part, but loyalty is also a possibility.



I have thought much on this statement since reading it, and I see John 15:16 in this statement:
[i]“Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit.”[/i]

A life of Victory for me is this: Am I running the race that has been set before me with PATIENCE?!?!? Not, have I arrived at some elusive undetermined place of no sin, but again am I in the race? Am I being conformed to the image of His Son Jesus Christ?!?!

Blessing,
Tony

Also, To Jeff: It’s high time we just simply get straight with people as you have done here. I heard a Minister say the following Sunday Morning as it regards living right:
1) Admit it
2) Repent it
3) Quit it

And it is possible as we strive to walk in the Holy Ghost.


_________________
Tony Sexton

 2005/5/17 13:07Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I want to hear testimony from people who no longer have any desire whatsoever to sin in any way shape or form.



Is this different then saying,"I want to hear testimony from people who no longer feel temptation whatsoever to sin in any way shape or form?"

If it is different, then how so?


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/5/17 13:25Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

Brother Dan wrote:

Quote:
I don't say this to belittle your victory in any way Jeff - Lord knows your testimony is a good one. Rather I say this because I do not see that your testimony, encouraging as it is, has answered the challenge given by brother Roberts.



I agree with your whole statement, every letter Brother. Paul teaches:

1Cor. 15:29 Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead? 30 And why do we stand in jeopardy every hour? 31 I affirm, by the boasting in you which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

We also are called to die daily, which means that we must call upon the name of our Lord daily for His provision.


Total Victory only comes as Paul teaches:

1Cor. 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. 43 It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. 44 It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

1Cor. 15:46 However, the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

So therefore we have not been perfected, but we look onward and upward to the call of Christ in our life. When Paul states:

24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Paul points to the only solution to our old man who continues to strive with His Holy Spirit. It is only by following His voice do we begin to experience the freedom that comes with living for Christ.

As you have said we will not experience total victory in this life, we do experience His work, and His work gives us a taste, a hope that is groaning within us in expectation of that day when we will then see Him as He is.

Amen Brother Dann


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2005/5/17 13:26Profile





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