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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : And what about John 13:1-20

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Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re: And what about John 13:1-20

This question is not new to me. I have asked the same in my Church. I remember reading an article by David Wilkerson on this subject. I am always in for believing every word in the Bible as truth, especially new Covenant. Here in washing the feet of one another Jesus just gave us an example that every brother in Church should have an attitude of serving one another irrespective of whatever his calling is (either to be a Teacher in the Church or a normal serving brother). He himself said that in verse 15 -'For I gave you an example that you also should do as I did to you'. We have to follow his example and should have the similar attitude of serving.

I remember once in a Church in India a brother noticed that a baby has excreted on the way to toilet, he then went to report this incident to elders. When he returned back to the spot he found 'the man who has most sermons on this site' cleaning the path way with his own hands. Clearly he was the speaker in Church, but his attitude was to serve the brothers. Toilet cleaning is definitely way lower job comparing to foot washing.

Unlike the mega Churches, in the Churches that I belong most of the low level jobs like toilet cleaning, vessel cleaning, cooking fellowship lunch etc are done by brothers and sisters in the Church. You can see the main speaker with great gift of prophesy collecting your used plates and cleaning them.

I hope this answers your question.


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Sreeram

 2013/6/16 12:03Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

It seems to me that Allaboard and Sree have got the point perfectly right about what we are meant to learn about the foot washing example in scripture. The story Sree told is a great example!

If we just take it just as some 'command' to literally wash feet, we miss the point and it becomes just a religious act. By all means if someone actually needs their feet washed, then do so and you will truly be serving them. Some elderly folk need to have their feet washed by someone.

Washing the feet was a common practice and a need in NT times due to the lifestyle and it was normally done by the lowest servant. Therefore to take the lowest place would be to do something needful for someone that would entail a humble task. I generally don't need my feet washed, but maybe if when I am sick, I need someone to clean up after me. That would be a most gracious and humble act.

Maybe litter picking in the streets could be one of the lowest jobs we could take up as an act of service or how about helping at an old peoples home and cleaning up after incontinent old folks? Washing the feet of someone in a church meeting just seems to me as a pompous religious act that is not meeting a real need, but makes us feel we are 'spiritual'.


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Dave

 2013/6/16 16:48Profile









 you had to have been there.

maybe I wasn't being concise enough, or describing WHAT happened in that 81 year old widows house...or maybe a cyber platform is totally inadequate a platform to discuss and reason about the Deep Things of God, because you wrote:

Quote:
Washing the feet of someone in a church meeting just seems to me as a pompous religious act that is not meeting a real need, but makes us feel we are 'spiritual'.



the washing of feet in that house meeting back in 2004, was the not the focus point of a "church meeting"...and since the only sound one heard among the 25 people crowded into that house while saints had their feet washed was of weeping. which in my estimation hardly qualifies it as a "pompous religious act".

weeping. That's all you heard.

Its a VERY INTIMATE act....you feel VERY vulnerable, which is why it was the Holy Spirit that told us ALL, that men would wash men's feet, and women would wash women's feet.

I did not give that directive....Nobody HAD TO, as Jesus was the Pastor of that meeting, and the Holy Ghost was leading....that's why I was saying, human words are almost inadequate to describe what went on DURING that meeting.

it was the MEETING itself, that was VERY different....I and my brother "R" had been praying and talking about this, our frustration over the "by the numbers" ecclesiology of "doing church".

I told him, God had given me a different vision, where the wall between "clergy" and "laity" was demolished. Its all very Scriptural, i'll give you all the Passage in a bit....but my heart was this:

Everybody WANTS to be heard in life.....and everybody IS IMPORTANT in God's Heart...all of us are, He loves us all with a Passion and Intensity, but there is only One made Perfect, ....Jesus, sinless, spotless, without blemish.

THE Perfect Pastor.

I had appropriated that Concept from the Moravians at Hernnhutt. I don't have time to go over Church history, but they were the ones that left the "Empty Chair", when they "elected" Jesus to head their Church....during the 100 year long prayer meeting.

Then I had studied with fascination something the Quakers do called "Worship Sharing"....and I started to pray and think about this....as I read it, they gather and as the Spirit leads, one can share a Passage of Scripture, a testimony, a prayer request, a song....however the Spirit leads a saint...there's only three guidelines or "rules", first, only ONE person can speak at a time, second, put a healthy pause between each share...weigh and consider prayerfully IF God the Holy Ghost wants you to speak next. and third, everyone must have a chance to speak once, before you speak a second time.

I kept thinking and praying about this. The familiar way of "doing church" even then seemed to me so "pro forma".....even to the point that leadership would put God into a time box...the bulletin handed out at the door.......from 10:00 AM to 10:15 AM -greeting period. 10:15-10:55 "Worship"...followed by a list of songs 10:55-11:00 Offerings....then part 2 of a 4 part "series" entitled "The Romans Road", by Pastor Earnest...oh yes, and that is from 11:00-11:27.

it was then my dear brother "R" had told me, that God was pulling them into the mission field...and it was God the Holy Spirit that told me, to wash his feet. I conferred with my dear brother....he was of one mind with me.

I was going to miss him and his wife and the kids terribly....then I told Pastor "B", who decided he wanted to "do a teaching" on footwashing.....and that just broke both our hearts....because had been sharing what the Lord was laying on my heart about worship sharing....tearing down that wall between clergy and laity...a NEW..OLD "Way" of Church:

"What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up. If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what is said. If a revelation is made to another sitting there, let the first be silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all be encouraged, and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets. For God is not a God of confusion but of peace."
1 Cor 14:26-33

when it became apparent the 100 ton boulder had stopped Pastor B from coming to this house meeting, I roseto my feet, and gave an outline of what I just told you regarding worship sharing....everyone was excited, I asked if we would all be of one accord, if I implored Jesus to Pastor this meeting, and gave utterance to this Pressing Need.

the Very Atmosphere in that humble home changed. His Presence was Wonderful....there was NO disorder, many testimonies were given, Precious Passages of Scripture read, worship songs from heart memory were sung, hands were laid on saints asking for prayer or healing....It was ALL so close to Heaven...I couldn't even stay off my face....I think this meeting went on for three hours, then I heard the Spirit say, "ask him"...I had been weeping and dying to self, wiped off my face, looked up at my brother, and asked if I could wash his feet.

as I detailed, this was all done wordlessly...if somebody didn't want their feet washed.....they KNEW it was okay to beg off.

I DIDNT want my feet washed, but only because of my FEAR, which I prayed away, and left myself open to the ministrations of my brothers and sisters....the last brother to have his feet washed was a dear brother who was quite a servant during the hour of footwashing...he just BROKE OPEN in tears....we all were crying....then it was Joy....nobody called the meeting to close....we JUST KNEW that part was over, then we gathered for an agape love feast....evertybody had brought food, and for the next 3 and a half hours, we all ate together.

NOBODY WANTED to leave....we were there from 10 AM to about 6:30 in the evening...it was an 8 and an half hour long meeting...and NOBODY looked at that clock.

so, do you really believe that a "pompous religious act " was at the center of what happened that beautiful day, I will never forget and long to live again?

can you really say that brother?

 2013/6/16 20:49
ADisciple
Member



Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada

 Re:

Heydave said, "It seems to me that Allaboard and Sree have got the point perfectly right about what we are meant to learn about the foot washing example in scripture. The story Sree told is a great example!"

Amen. This is about taking the place of a servant or a slave to others and being willing to do the meanest tasks.


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Allan Halton

 2013/6/16 21:57Profile
allaboard
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Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re: you had to have been there.

four

 2013/6/16 22:51Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re: And what about John 13:1-20

Dear one's,

May I add something to subject for your consideration ?

When Jesus taught many things,... He said: These things shall ye do,
and greater than these,shall ye do....He healed physically,and if we will notice,He was showing the Deciples that they,through the Word of God,
...the revealed Word,and through the Holy Spirit,that they would receive,Our Spiritual condition could be healed which is greater.

Example:

* He healed blinded eyes / we would be healed ,that we would be able
to have EYES TO SEE in the Spirit ( our eyes would be opened)
* He healed the lame / that through the Spirit we could WALK the Way that He wants us to walk....(we know the Scripture,.."lest the lame be turned out of the Way.)
* Jesus healed the deaf / that we could have 'EARS TO HEAR',..Spiritually
* Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead./ He raises us from the dead,...to give us Life .

I said all of that so we could look also at the feet washing :

We notice Jesus and His Deciples ( learners )had just eaten the Passover supper,..and I was thinking about His prayer,.." Give us this day our daily
Bread"( the Bread of Life ) ...and after we've eaten,it time and enablement
to walk,...feet.which is the next discussion of Scripture after the Passover.

I believe He was teaching them and us,not only to humble themselves in the feet washing but in the Spiritual ,WE MUST REMIND EACH OTHER , like He,that we have been cleansed,... but that our walk does matter,...that we walk with clean feet.

I noticed,He said,( Jn.13:18)...., one eateth bread with Me,hath lifted up his
HEEL against me.

John the Baptist said he was not worthy to latches Jesus' shoes.
Why ? Jesus' walk so righteous / pure

* We bow at His feet,...where He walks
* We sit and learn at His feet,...at His walk

* the woman that washed Jesus' feet with her tears and dried His feet with her hair,..(Her hair being her glory)His walk / feet was so precious.

* ...and if thy foot offend thee, cut it off,......( if the foot is walking in a wrong way and not in The Way ) then Jesus says,it's better to cut it off rather than
to be cast into hell where the fire cannot be quenched .

OH,His beautiful feet,..and He said,Follow Me.

Please be blessed,
elizabeth

 2013/6/17 0:40Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Quote:

I believe He was teaching them and us,not only to humble themselves in the feet washing but in the Spiritual ,WE MUST REMIND EACH OTHER , like He,that we have been cleansed,... but that our walk does matter,...that we walk with clean feet.



Very good point. The article that I referred in my previous post by David Wilkerson speaks the same. I read it once in SI and it should still be available here. I believe the article is an extract from this audio sermon.

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=3862&commentView=itemComments

I agree that there are 2 things that Jesus was teaching
1. To be humble and ready to serve no matter how much grace and gifts you receive in your Christian walk.
2. To be willing to remove the dirt from our fellow brothers daily walk with a humble attitude.


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Sreeram

 2013/6/17 1:29Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re: you had to have been there.

Quote:
___________________________________________________________
the washing of feet in that house meeting back in 2004, was the not the focus point of a "church meeting"...and since the only sound one heard among the 25 people crowded into that house while saints had their feet washed was of weeping. which in my estimation hardly qualifies it as a "pompous religious act".
_________________________________________________________

Neil my comments were not directed at your post, but just in general. I can well believe that the Holy Spirit may instruct foot washing at a particular time for a particular reason, in the same way He may call us to do some other act.

As to the rest of what you wrote...AMEN this is real 'church', great!


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Dave

 2013/6/17 5:07Profile









 Re:

Brothers and sisters I am not advocating a foot washing movement though I guess there is some comic relief in that statement :). But whether we look at the act itself or the motive behind the act the implication is the same. The Son of mam came not to be served but to serve. And that is what is being taught. To serve one another.

I opened up this thread as a balance to the head covering thread to get to the heart of the matter. That being we serve one another. And doing so out of Spirit filled hearts of humility and love. For Jesus did say we would be blessed if we do these things. Not necessarily the actual act itself, but serving one another out of Christ centered hearts.

Bearmaster.

 2013/6/17 6:24
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2256
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I grew up in a church that practiced foot washing. I can remember a foot washing service about once every two or three years. It was a wonderful time of humbling ourselves before our brothers and I can remember much weeping and often healing of wounds and forgiveness of wrongs done. Let's not build a movement, but let's keep the practice alive for I think it bears much fruit.


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Travis

 2013/6/17 22:48Profile





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