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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Fundamentalism and spiritual death

Have you ever noticed that after a person comes to faith in Jesus, if they are not careful they get caught up into fundamentalism and eventually find the freedom they had inside now gone and instead they are defending their faith through sword fighting using the scriptures?

I have noticed this even while talking to a guy at work. He goes to the Church of Christ and as I talk to him and we bring up certain subjects his first question is 'what did Jesus say?' in effect what he is really asking is what did Jesus say according to the Church of Christ. I find that fundamentalism tends to choke the life out of a Christian by being so dogmatic in so many things it is akin to being nailed to the cross with the law around your neck. A person is born again and set free and then a Fundamentalist puts the law around their neck in which to add a new set of chains to their lives. As a result there are many people who leave Jesus because of this abuse and become Atheists, agnostics or follow after another faith.

Why does this have to be so? Often times I find comments on this board that lean the very same way yet I stay and read and try to learn why the thinking is so.

So often I find myself getting into a conversation with a more Fundamental type of person and being light hearted and then the conversation turns way too serious.

One example, recently I took a trip to South Carolina to visit my sister n law and family. They are 7th day Adventists. Her mom is Catholic. I have gone with both of them to their respective church just to have something to do but also for the experience of what is going on. I am not there to judge but to observe v. heresay. I have brought these experiences up in conversations with some who are more fundamental and instead of casual conversation I get the 3rd degree. I liken it to having Westboro Baptist church picketing my conversation.

I like to talk about religious beliefs and share what I agree with and don't agree with and I will tell you why but Fundamentalist thinkers seem the need to inject their absolute truth to me and if I don't agree the light hearted conversation gets too serious. I see this as a shadow as to why many have left the Christian faith.


What are your thoughts?


John


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John

 2013/6/6 9:18Profile
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re: Fundamentalism and spiritual death

Sorry to hear of your experience. I can't really relate to what you are saying because most people who I hang around or know are all about the freedom in Christ and honestly take it to the other extreme. Anytime you attempt to speak into their lives about holiness or living for the Lord they get defensive and shut down. Even just asking a simple question like "so what have you been learning in the Word lately?" gets a response of "don't judge me"
I honestly find it really hard to talk to people who say they are Christians but want to continue living on in sin because they embrace the notions that Jesus is all about love, forgiveness, and freedom.(He is of course but there is a whole lot more too) Apparently to some I know and hang around that freedom in Christ means a license to do whatever. Sin doesn't seem to matter as much cause after all Jesus will forgive. I often wonder if they really see the seriousness of eternity looming before them????

I could see where it would be difficult for you coming from the other end of the spectrum. I always think God is about balance, His perfect balance in our lives and yet its seems for many we find ourselves in one extreme camp or the other. I think it takes prayer, and spending time with the Lord to find and remain in that perfect balance and with Him is possible to do

rdg

 2013/6/6 9:36Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

rainydaygirl

You are not far off from what I am asking. You are experiencing what happened to me when I died inside back in 1999. People calling themselves Christians yet don't know anything about the Bible and practicing sin because they can't help themselves. It is the opposite of Fundamentalism yet it leads to the same dead end street. I died then because as I was learning, those around me were not and I could not see the reality of God around me in people and thus decided God is left the building, type of mentality.

With Fundamentalist it is as if God is chain to the outside of the building and cannot do anything because what He used to do He doesn't do it anymore. Using the bible hold me captive. That is what the Pharisees did. Some of them mean well while others have agenda for their own church or set of beliefs. I don't swing that way at all. I like to discuss it and find out why someone believes a certain way without them trying to arrest me with their view. I don't try to arrest people with my view. I lay mine on the table and tell others what I am seeing.

Fundamentalists tend to have culture drive their beliefs as well. i.e. styles of dress from the clothing to physical appearance. Even one preachers says Southern Gospel music is heaven's music and if you don't like it you won't like heaven. I hate Southern Gospel music - it is the music and the way the vocals are done that cause me to run and yet some Fundamentalists would accuse me of being apostate. Really? I often would say call me apostate because for me that would be a 'hell' to have to endure. I prefer integrity and hosanna type of praise and worship music.

I need to be quiet, I am quite passionate about this subject.

John


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John

 2013/6/6 9:49Profile
deltadom
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Joined: 2005/1/6
Posts: 2359
Hemel Hempstead

 Re:

The word Fundamentalist means basic truths which you basically believe in the foundational doctrines of the christian faith such as Jesus is God, Jesus bodily raised from the Dead, he was born of a virgin and other major doctrines.
Fundamentalist is from R A Torreys books
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentalshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentals


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Dominic Shiells

 2013/6/6 14:15Profile
Lysa
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Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: deltadom


The correct link is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fundamentals


The sad thing is with the different "christian's" who represent fundamentalism, they don't seem to represent the Christ, the son of the Living God - they instead represent a denomination.

Sadly, for someone to call me a fundamentalist would be equivalent to calling me bad word. I mean, I would get over it but it would upset me!

God bless,
lisa



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Lisa

 2013/6/6 15:16Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

When I use the word Fundamentalist I refer to those who abide by near every single word of the Bible and cannot simply discuss it without being very serious. This includes being dogmatic about styles of dress, method of music(in church), healing and so forth. Independent Fundamental Baptist church preachers could be a major example of this.


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John

 2013/6/6 17:34Profile
rainydaygirl
Member



Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

John you wrote this in your response post to me, "I died then because as I was learning, those around me were not and I could not see the reality of God around me in people and thus decided God is left the building, type of mentality."

I wonder as you look back over that time do you think the reason you lost sight of God was because your focus was so much on others and not on Him? Do you feel like the blame for your dying back then was because of what others were doing or do you hold yourself accountable as well? Just wondering cause of some things I have gone through and learned about myself as well.


rdg

 2013/6/6 17:51Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1395
Lakeland FL

 Re:

rainydaygirl

Yes, I had too much of a focus on others and not on God plus I had no personal friend who I could feed off of as well.

Back then the 'Christians' around me cause me to become disillusioned as to what God was doing around me, in people around me. I couldn't see the Power of God in any form. I felt like an island to myself and when seeking to go deeper I could not engage in conversation to go deeper because others around me were on the shore line. Even the closest friend I had was one who was a part of the Word of Faith movement and I saw her belief system as a circus act.

Eventually, over the course of a year all of these things chipped away at my heart until it climaxed with a seemingly innocent incident at work with a guy who said he was a Christian. That very day I went home and closed my eyes and intentionally pushed my spirit to die. Anger, resentment and depression came but one thing that never came was crossing the line into drugs and alcohol and sexual relations. I knew better than to cross those lines.

In the end I do have to hold my own self accountable and affirm what it is I believe and why and than stay on that foundation. I have learned more and more there are many voices in Christendom that are built to confuse and destroy Christians. Thus, a reason why I don't listen to Christian radio as I used to. It can put me into a fog very quickly. It shouldn't be yet it happens.


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John

 2013/6/6 18:11Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: Fundamentalism and spiritual death


DEADn is this similar to what you might be talking about?...

A few years back I had a fundamentalist stopped me while I was mowing my yard to ask me if I knew Jesus and I said yes, so we talked about Jesus for a minute. He then saw my ear buds and asked me what I was listening to and told him it was worship music and because it wasn't southern gospel, suddenly I was going to hell!

He began to exert his maleness since I was a mere female and instruct me on how only southern gospel music would get people into heaven. I kid you not. And I said, "So by your standards every other culture that is Christian will be going to hell if they don’t listen to southern gospel music then?" He couldn’t listen to me because I was a woman and to actually admit my logic was right would be submitting to a woman! Craziness since he was the one to come on my property and stop me from mowing and then want to argue with me.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2013/6/6 19:49Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

Dictionary definitions aside, American fundamentalism is the belief that God is mainly concerned with correct doctrinal opinions, and that He will torment people in eternity for having incorrect ideas about him.

I fell into this trap early in my Christian experience. I first heard the Gospel and believed at Calvary Chapel Stone Mountain, Georgia - a very healthy spiritual atmosphere. But I was irresistibly drawn to the Independent Fundamental King-James-Only Buzzcut Baptist Church. I loved denunciatory preaching and heresy-hunting; I liked to think that my little church was a tiny, faithful remnant in an ocean of apostasy, and relished the idea that Jesus was coming soon to bring judgment on this idiotic world, especially the Apostate Church.

Why? Because I was an unhappy, mixed-up teenager. But now I hear nationally-syndicated radio preachers who have the same psychology that I did when I was 15.

Now that I have escaped from the Dogma Pound, I can only regard fundamentalists with fear and loathing. I will not put on airs and say that I look at them with love and pity - no, only fear and loathing. I know the danger of their spiritual condition because I used to be in that state myself - and it took a miracle of grace to get me out of it.

So what can we do to help them? Nothing. If you try to point out their error, they will see you as just another heretic who needs to be refuted and consigned to hell.

Only a spiritual earthquake can shake someone out of this condition.


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Wayne Kraus

 2013/6/6 19:59Profile





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