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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : For those seeking entire sanctification.

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 2013/5/23 17:56
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

There is only One in whom sanctification is made; 1 Corinthians 1:30 But <de> of <ek> him <autos> are <este> ye <humeis> in <en> Christ <Christos> Jesus <Iesous>, who <hos> of <apo> God <theos> is made <ginomai> unto us <hemin> <te> wisdom <sophia>, and righteousness <dikaiosune>, and <kai> sanctification <hagiasmos>, and <kai> redemption <apolutrosis>:

"made" Strong's Greek Dictionary
1096. ginomai
Search for G1096 in KJVSL
ginomai ginomai ghin'-om-ahee
a prolongation and middle voice form of a primary verb; to cause to be ("gen"-erate), i.e. (reflexively) to become (come into being), used with great latitude (literal, figurative, intensive, etc.):--arise, be assembled, be(-come, -fall, -have self), be brought (to pass), (be) come (to pass), continue, be divided, draw, be ended, fall, be finished, follow, be found, be fulfilled, + God forbid, grow, happen, have, be kept, be made, be married, be ordained to be, partake, pass, be performed, be published, require, seem, be showed, X soon as it was, sound, be taken, be turned, use, wax, will, would, be wrought.

Jesus Christ and He alone is our sanctification; not by what I do or don't do, but by God, He has made Jesus Christ our only way of wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption.

Jesus is the only way, He that is born again in us, making us a new creation race of God's offspring, "the son's of God", sanctified in Him and He in us, the only One that keeps us fully sanctified.

1 Corinthians 1:28-31 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of (((him))) are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Who is "him"? The One and only God the Father. Who has "him" placed us in Christ? being made unto us, our, sanctification and all else pertaining to the Kingdom of God. In Him, Total and complete, no parts and peaces, kept completely and none lost.

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

In Christ: Phillip

In Him: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2013/5/23 23:12Profile









 Re: Philip

Brother

I have listened to the cd`s, and felt that I could listen to the speaker forever. I agree that Paul was given a special revelation of sanctification. The brother has much in depth understanding of scripture. However, I cannot agree with his premis, that, all we require to be complete, is to see that Christ is within us. As we see in the OT, God cannot dwell where there is sin and His plan is to remove it from us, not by imputation but through impartation of His righteousness.

His life cannot be imparted unless the old nature is destroyed and this does not happen when we first come to Christ because we need to learn just how useless the flesh is, the flesh that is neutral that is, the flesh that desires to serve God but must learn that all impulse and life must eminate from Christ within us with nothing coming from our human impulses and instincts.

Death is required in us and through our consent to it by reckoning ourselves crucified in this way and only then can Christ come to dwell with in us.This is entire sanctification and the witness is a pure heart and Christ within. The reason why many believers do not feel that Christ is within is simply because He isn`t. If He is there, we don`t need a preacher to convince us of it. It`s as plain as the air we breathe.

 2013/5/24 4:18
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

Phillip, I have read a few of Litzmans' online magazines yesterday, and then a 6 year old thread here were you promoted him. The only person with enough discernment that really tried to warn you was Rookie (Jeff) and you resisted the truth, because Rookie taught the gospel and faith, and you taught Litzman. That's why you never agreed with each other.

And that man speaks a lot about "birthing" in his publications and the mystery that only Paul proclaimed. What would be appreciated if we knew he had the correct Jesus. But his own words deny him:

"Jesus of Nazareth did not teach this gospel (He taught Moses law)"

what is just plain nonsense, because then Litzman also does not have:

John 14:26  But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

He then does not want anything what Jesus said brought to his remembrance, he is only interested in the "christ seed birthing" as a separate item that can be placed within. The "distilled christ seed formula" applied to unregenerated people. Nothing about following Jesus Christ.

And he has also no idea about the law of God, even though Paul indirectly thaught it a lot in strongest terms. 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Ephesians 5:5 for example - if you can name the laws that are broken, and list them one by one, then you understand that these are in fact active and intact to judge those that break them. That's a good exercise to come out of this dillusional lawless grace that brings the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Paul speaks a lot of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and he also calls that gospel 'my gospel'. Litzman teaches that there are 2 entirely different gospels, and only "Paul's my gospel" is the one for us now and our only savior Jesus Christ only taught Moses law. So that's why he is only interested in the redefined 'seed birthing' not the person, and not his law, that makes that person undesirable to him.

The basic misunderstanding of antinomians is between the “Law of Sin and death” vs. the “Law of God” and the resulting mistakes are multiple ones, usually articulated as "everything has been nailed to the cross" - one clearly hasn't, otherwise there would be NO grounds to judge the people in 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Ephesians 5:5 - yet Paul calls every law he mentiones simply 'law'. You have to closely study the context, or you would be really wiser to teach nothing at all. And that's the ditch God will let antinomians fall if they wrest Paul teachings:

2 Peter 3:16  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

Some people simply find God's demands unreasonable, not to be recognized and believed to be valid because these would expose their sins, and that's what this whole "law nailed to the cross" business is about:

"It is TRULY as Jesus said: John 5:46-47 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Do the New Testament Holy Ghost preachers really understand what Jesus taught if they do NOT believe the words of Moses? According to what Jesus said in John 5:46-47 the answer would be NO."

And all this in a thread about "entire sancification" - well, what does it really mean for anyone that doesnt want to recognize their sins? Someone that wants to deny that there is a holy standard according to that everyone will be judged? That would mean you want the end result, for yourself, apart from God, without the necessary walk of the cross. What you need is the simple gospel of Jesus Christ. And grace found in repentance.

 2013/5/24 6:37Profile









 Re:

It never ceases to surprise me just how much we wrestle over this issue of Christ within and thereafter following Him. The idea that it is one or the other is so misleading. It is similarly so dangerous to a real sanctified life to present the idea that God does not dwell with a believer because they have sin in their lives. If one is born again then Christ is in you and there is no removing Him, any more than rejecting your own mother and father would negate the fact that you are their offspring.

Paul certainly did bring an understanding of the grace of God which for all others prior to him was a difficult thing to realise in the immediacy of the Lord' ascension into heaven. Yet it does not represent another gospel either. Peter recognised it as sound and comprehended that it was "some things difficult to understand" yet went on to warn that Paul was being used to write scripture as well. Peter clearly knew what Paul was teaching and writing, and did not reject it.

One would have to ask whether Peter Himself actually believed that it was necessary to keep the law unto righteousness. He most assuredly did not. What Peter was concerned with beyond the Christ of Israel was the issue of finding an easy entrance into the kingdom of God. If this means being born again then we may as well all give up right now because none of us will make it at all. Any one who thinks otherwise is become vain.

It is necessary to both know Christ by faith and experience Christ by walking. Both depend on a new life in Christ and by the Holy Spirit Christ in us. It is never one nor the other. It is the same thing in truth, it is always Christ Himself.

 2013/5/24 7:05
mossman
Member



Joined: 2010/5/10
Posts: 10


 Re: For those seeking entire sanctification.

I think a second work of Grace is a better name. But anyway I thought I would say something on this trend, because I think a lot of people thinks we grow into sanctification. Acts 26:18 Jesus tells Paul that people are sanctified by faith. Anything by faith is instant. When we are Justified by Faith it is instant. What I believe is we grow IN sanctified not growing TO. Look at it this way. When we get Justified, your like a tree that got cut down. But you still got roots. Sanctification is dealing with the roots. I hope this help. God bless everyone.

 2013/5/24 10:40Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote: """
Phillip, I have read a few of Litzmans' online magazines yesterday, and then a 6 year old thread here were you promoted him. The only person with enough discernment that really tried to warn you was Rookie (Jeff) and you resisted the truth, because Rookie taught the gospel and faith, and you taught Litzman. That's why you never agreed with each other.

And that man speaks a lot about "birthing" in his publications and the mystery that only Paul proclaimed. What would be appreciated if we knew he had the correct Jesus. But his own words deny him:"""

As I said before, you need to speak to Mr. Litzman, because I am not here to defend his doctrine, that can only come from him. I have come to the truth of the scriptures when it considers all that Paul teaches, which is to this day a stumbling block for many.

When I first heard the words birthing or birthed, I also was skeptical of what Mr. Litzman was saying. But the more I studied to try to prove him wrong the more the Holy Spirit confirmed the born again experience in me. I have come to the truth of Paul and speak of nothing except Christ and Him crucified. The specific change in me being "Christ in you the hope of glory" and being crucified with Christ and coming to new life by He that is birthed in me, by the Father and His incorruptible Seed that defines who I am, A Christ Person, a new creature, never before the Cross revealed, but kept secret from all until God was ready to reveal Christ in me, and to all that receive Him.

Forgive me for using Mr. Litzman as a text of any kind, I am sure he is and would be very upset with me for not allowing him to be present in his own defense before using his teaching. I came under his teaching to prove him wrong and the Holy Spirit proved him right in my spirit and by revelation of the truth and study of the Word of God, not the word of Litzman.

May we all come to the truth and freedom in Christ, which by Him we are free indeed and need no proof, except by the Spirit of Christ that is in us. This by His faith that is proof enough of my faith.

Is this the Word of God? Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I don't believe Christ is dead in vain, but that He lives in me, making me a son of God by the Son in me, not frustrating the Grace of God.

Ephesians 2:7-10 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

If I am using the Word of God wrongly, please show me, that I might repent and beg forgiveness of God and all who read anything I write on this forum.

Ephesians 1:1-5 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

To me also, I pray in Christ:

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2013/5/24 15:34Profile









 Re: krautfrau

you said

"His life cannot be imparted unless the old nature is destroyed and this does not happen when we first come to Christ because we need to learn just how useless the flesh is, the flesh that is neutral that is, the flesh that desires to serve God but must learn that all impulse and life must eminate from Christ within us with nothing coming from our human impulses and instincts."

How can it be possible to be a Christain and not have Christ's Life imparted?

True Christianity is having Christ's life and embracing it.

 2013/5/25 5:46









 Re: amrkelly and tuc

It never ceases to surprise me just how much we wrestle over this issue of Christ within and thereafter following Him. The idea that it is one or the other is so misleading. It is similarly so dangerous to a real sanctified life to present the idea that God does not dwell with a believer because they have sin in their lives. If one is born again then Christ is in you and there is no removing Him, any more than rejecting your own mother and father would negate the fact that you are their offspring.

**********************************************************

How can it be possible to be a Christain and not have Christ's Life imparted?

------------------------------------------------------------

Indeed if one is born again and a true Christian, then Christ dwells within and His life is imparted.

We read in John 6:56 that :

"He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood dwelleth in me and me in him".

Christ is talking about sharing in His crucifixion, where his flesh was broken and His blood poured out.

Man always imagines himself at a higher stage spiritually than he really is and many come to Christ to have their sins forgiven and think they have been crucified, but they have not taken part in the transaction by renouncing sin in totality, so they are believers but not yet Christians. If we are dead to sin then it has no part in us.

 2013/5/25 6:34









 Re:

Brenda you and others who embrace sinless perfection assume one enters into a Zen Buddhist state and sin has no impact on them. Any believer in Christ who is walking in sobmission to his Spirit is "daily" putting to death the misdeeds of the body. Otherwise what did Jesus mean when he said if anyone wishes to cone after me he must deny himself and take up his cross "daily" and follow me? Also what did Paul mean when he said I die "daily"?

I emphasize "daily" because this is not a one time act when you reckon you are dead to sin and enter nirvana and there is no struggle to resist sin.

Sister the emphasis to practical holiness in the New Testament is a "daily" putting on the Lord Jesus Christ and not thinking about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature. This is the testimony of myself and anyone else in tbis forum who are pursuing a holy walk with Jesus. This is the holy war the believer in Jexus Christ is engaged in.

Brenda I notice you and others who hold to sinless perfection will not admit to falling into sin. You sidestep or evade the question. To admit to sin would be s failure in your theology. I also notice that the sinless perfection folks will do everything possible to explain away 1 John 1:7-9 which deals with the provision for cleansing when a believer falls into sin.

I mention the above because for the rest of us who pursue Christ in the putting off if sin and putting on Jesus we will fall into sin. This is a holy struggle and there will be times I fall. I admit I sin. Is this my desire. No. But the reality of my or any believer's struggle with sin is there will be times even we fall. But the marvelous provision of God on forgiveness and cleansing in 1 John 1:9.

The common theme between the byoergrace and sinless perfection theokgies is they deny the reality of the believer,s war with sin. These theologies impy one is in nirvana with no impact of sin in their lives. Sister these theologies do not line up with the teachibg or experience with New Testament believers.

Anyone who says they have an experience of walking in a world filled with sin and this sin has no impact on them. I would say they are not walking in reality.

Bearmaster.


 2013/5/25 7:33





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